316 | Scaling a Thriving Ecommerce Brand | with Allison Herman

Allison Herman

You're only as good as the people that surround you and support you at the end of the day. 

Chase Clymer

Welcome to Honest Ecommerce, a podcast dedicated to cutting through the BS and finding actionable advice for online store owners. I'm your host, Chase Clymer. And I believe running a direct consumer brand does not have to be complicated or a guessing game. On this podcast, we interview founders and experts who are putting in the work and creating real results. I also share my own insights from running our top Shopify consultancy, Electric Eye.

We cut the fluff in favor of facts to help you grow your Ecommerce business. Let's get on with the show. 

Chase Clymer

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Honest Ecommerce. Today, I'm welcoming the show Allison Herman, the owner and CEO of Dragonwing, an athletic brand catered to teen tween girls. Allie, welcome to the show. 

Allison Herman

Thanks so much for having me, Chase. 

Chase Clymer

Awesome. So Dragonwing, obviously catered to young women. What are the actual products that you guys are bringing to market over there and selling?

Allison Herman

Yeah. So we really have all the things on athletic wear. We do cater a lot to that dance, cheer and gymnastics market. We do have a lot of active tops, sports bras, sets, skirts are a huge thing in our product line. Then we even go into leotards for those dance and cheer girls that have a need for that on a daily basis. 

Chase Clymer

Nice. Now take me back in time. Where did the idea for this business come from? 

Allison Herman

Yeah. So I've always loved fashion. I went to Parsons School of Design after UNC Chapel Hill, so I really started my career there and worked in Nike Kids for about 10 years. I was always in the active space. I was also a swimmer all through college. 

I had that athletic background as well. So I've always had a love for the combination of fashion as well as active wear. Dragon Wing was actually started back in 2013 from an old colleague of mine who started as a base layer company. 

Then about two and a half years ago, when she wanted to change directions, my husband and I had the opportunity to acquire the company, really rebranded it, and updated the product. 

Everything is completely new, fresh, very different from what I call the legacy product and the original founding of the brand. So here we are today and we're continuing to grow and it's just been a great journey. 

Chase Clymer

That's amazing. We talked to owners and founders and they built the business themselves. Talk to me about what motivated you to acquire this business and what were you looking for and what really was the driving force behind it? 

Allison Herman

I would say it just seemed like the perfect fit. Just having that active background, having a sourcing background. I've always wanted to be an entrepreneur. At the beginning when we were looking into it, it seemed like a very easy transition. That being said, it's hard to acquire someone else's business. 

The founder is great. She's been a mentor to me, but really trying to figure out where someone has left off and where you're jumping in and getting into the back end and logistics of things and changing manufacturing partners and rebranding. I can't say if it's easier to start a business from the ground up or if it is to acquire one. So it was definitely a challenge.

I'm learning steps along the way, still learning on a daily basis. But like I said, it's been really fun. 

It was something that really gave me that push to be the CEO and to be an entrepreneur. 

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. Now with purchasing it back in 2022, what were some of the opportunities that you saw with it in the business that made it like this is a good idea?

Allison Herman

I think just the lack of activewear that's out there for girls. There's a huge niche that needs to be filled, especially high quality fabric. I think a lot of what is out there for girls is really that pink it and shrink mentality where you take a women's sports bra and then just scale it down for girls. 

So it's not that true fit for their growing body. I really saw the opportunity there to make products specifically for girls. We go from size 6 all the way up to a size 18. But we really pride ourselves on high quality, great fit, coverage for girls that are growing, and really making sure it's proper for girls growing bodies. 

Chase Clymer

Now with this business, you came in on the tail end of the pandemic per se. I'm sure you remember how that played into things a little bit more than I do in that time period. How much can you share about the size of the business and the opportunities from a growth perspective? 

Allison Herman

Yeah. So I will say when we acquired the business, it had been dormant, essentially. During the pandemic, they were very heavily on Amazon and they were considered non-essential. A lot of their sales were coming from Amazon. So their high watermark years were mainly Amazon, interestingly enough, versus direct to consumer. 

So when we acquired the business, we knew that going into it, knowing that we would really have to start from the ground up. Was it the smartest move? I don't know. But we were able to scale pretty quickly. 

And I think the biggest thing is, we went from being this Amazon company, which the original founder really considered as her bread and butter, to owning our direct to consumer customer. So our Shopify business is much larger than any other platform. We do have a ton of ambassadors that have really helped grow the business from an influencing perspective as well as a buying perspective. 

I will say one thing we really pride ourselves on is we have so many repeat customers. I mean I have girls that buy 12, 13, 14 times within a 6-month span. It's really nice to know that our product is doing that well and the girls are resonating with it, that they are continuing to be repeat customers. 

Chase Clymer

I think that's a struggle. I guarantee there are people listening to this podcast right now that are struggling with getting away from the pool that Amazon has on their business. If they built it there, oftentimes, they just stay there. 

It's hard to pivot and own that direct consumer experience like you have obviously done over Dragonwing. Do you have any tips or tricks or advice on how you dove in there and really made that happen? 

Allison Herman

I think it's really updating the website. I think having consistent products and consistent new imagery. A lot of video, direct to consumer is hard because the customer isn't in the brick and mortar store touching and feeling the product. You have to go off of imagery. That's been huge for our success is really getting that professional product imagery, getting a lot of videos so people can see the feel of the product, how it flows. 

So that's been really helpful. But I think then really just trying to build that email and customer base and really capturing emails of anybody at any point in time, whether it's a 20% off promo, text message promo, because that's your customer and you own that list. I think the challenge with Amazon is it's a great platform. That's the direction the world is going. 

But it's very, very price competitive. At the end of the day, you're competing against your own website. If you're not diversifying your product mix, and you don't own your customer. At any point in time you can lose that. 

That's where we really strive to bring that customer base, own our customer through dragonwing.com, and then use Amazon as a supplement of legacy products or things that we're overstocked on where we can really bring it down to a price point and into different products mixed. 

Chase Clymer

Oh, I really want to highlight that because I'm sure there's one in one ear and out the other for some of the listeners. So your stock on the dot com is different from the stock on your Amazon business? 

Allison Herman

That's correct. Because we don't want to compete with ourselves. Also, we are branching out into those retail.Some retail stores as well. I think that Amazon does get a bad rap on some of the smaller boutique mapo shops just because it's like, you can buy it on Prime and get it in a day. Why are they going to go out and actually shop in the brick and mortar?

But what we really found is we want to make sure that we keep our retailers in that special space of new product launches, our higher-end product, the more fashionable product. That's for our protection as well. So we're not competing against ourselves. So on other platforms, we really try to diversify the product. 

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. You mentioned earlier that you obviously have a successful influencer strategy to bring new business into the website. Obviously, you want those emails. Is there anything else around the marketing of the business or acquiring new customers that you can share? 

Allison Herman

Yeah. I think the Ambassador program has been huge because they're out there influencing on social. Social has been huge for bringing our numbers up from a business perspective just because it's getting the name out there. Advertising has helped a lot. We're also trying to do a lot of partnerships. So I've been partnering with some other brands.

So that we can kind of share each other's email lists, you know, and they're not direct competitors, but we can work together and build each other up. That's helped a lot. Then we are really trying to partner with a lot of dance competitions and conventions to get our name out there so that the girls that aren't on Instagram. 

Instagram is, I will say, very much a bubble for the girls that are dancers or cheerleaders, but for the girls or moms that aren't on Instagram can actually see and find out when they're in these live studios and conventions. 

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. That's such a smart angle. I think that a lot of younger entrepreneurs overlook events that still exist. There are always gatherings of your ideal customer somewhere. 

Allison Herman

Absolutely. I think collaborations are huge too. I think a lot of the time people see others as competitors and want to make sure that they can stay completely separate and that everyone is out for themselves. But I truly believe that there's enough room for everybody at the top. The more we can get our name out there and the more we can support other businesses and for me, specifically other women-owned businesses and learn from each other, I think it's better for both of us. 

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. I think that having that abundance mindset versus a scarcity mindset creates a different type of entrepreneur and a more powerful networker, to be honest. 

Allison Herman

Yeah. It's fun too. It's fun to have supporters and to make friends in the business and be able to bounce ideas off of other really smart people that have had the struggles that you are facing every day. 

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Chase Clymer

In the past few years since purchasing the brand, does anything stand out on either side? Big wins that you accomplished or maybe some mistakes that you wish you would have known better? 

Allison Herman

We've made plenty of mistakes along the way. I still make them every day today. I am a true believer that if you don't fail, you can't succeed. So you have to make the mistakes to learn and to grow. It's just the ebbs and flows of how the business goes. I expect to make mistakes in the future. 

I will say we put a ton into branding and brand strategy and brand voice and at the very beginning of our venture. Then we ended up pivoting to a completely different audience about a year later. I don't think we put enough market research into who our brand was. That was a really large chunk of money that we did not need to spend. Our brand is going to consistently be pivoting. So I think we've learned through that. 

We've also worked with some influencer platforms that were super expensive, we thought would bring a lot of visibility to the table and it was just not successful in the least. But from a win perspective, I think really just growing our presence on social media, continuing to grow, continuing to see those Shopify sales come in. Then really branching out into the wholesale market has been huge for us. 

So we have quite a few larger retailers that we're entertaining right now, which is really fun. Again, that would be more product-specific to cater to them just so we're not competing with our own store. But we're really excited about just all these different opportunities and channels of distribution and growth. 

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. So just to repeat it back to the customer, so far, you've talked about wholesale strategies just now. And you also have the Amazon channel and then also the direct consumer channel through Shopify. Are there any others that are on the horizon? 

Allison Herman

So we're also working with Target now. So that's exciting. That's the same situation where there is a different product mixed on Target. Then we just came back from a trade show actually last week where we have quite a few larger retailers around the country that do want to bring us in. 

Chase Clymer

Yeah, I know how it works. You're not allowed to talk about it. 

Allison Herman

Yeah, but we're excited. So definitely the opportunity out there and just the fact that people are interested in continuing to find ways to grow has just been really exciting.

Chase Clymer

Awesome. Awesome. Now, if you had a younger entrepreneur in front of you and the discussion was around networking, how would you help educate them on how to be a better networker or the power of networking? 

Allison Herman

You're only as good as the people that surround you and support you at the end of the day. I think networking is so important. Those are the people that are going to build you up. Those are the people that you're going to bounce ideas off of. It is so important. 

I think that's how we've been so successful is partnering with photographers, with production companies. We do a lot of fashion weeks and have this great network of people that are helping to support us do that. We have a great PR agency. I have a modeling coach that I am very good friends with and I use a lot of her models. 

I think it's just really important to have that support system that's going to help you grow because those are the people that are going to ultimately have your back, get your name out there and help to support you. 

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. And I need to remember this and I need to look it up after this. But there's this concept, it applies to, I think, putting yourself out there, going to events, meeting new people. But also, you could also spin it towards maybe content and producing content and continuously and consistently publishing content. 

It's just this idea of your surface luck area. The more effort you put out there and exposure, the more people know your name, know what you're good at, what the thing is that you sell. It all comes back eventually. 

Allison Herman

Yeah. That's so true. That's one thing we've learned too is content is king. So we really try to shoot our product consistently. We're always trying to bring new products. We don't do the typical four launches of spring, summer, fall, winter.

We do have larger capsules at those times, but we're trying to constantly bring in new products, especially because it's direct to consumer, because people always want to see something new. It's really then getting that product out there, whether it's through reels on Instagram, whether it's through marketing strategies, advertisements. 

But yeah, it's always an expense up front, but it does always come back, as does the networking. I think that the hardest thing for these young consumers is for me when I was starting the business was having the confidence to walk into a room where you don't know anybody. 

It's all about just putting on that business face and just going right up to people and introducing yourself. And nine times out of 10, people want to meet you and want to talk to you. I think people just need to remember that. 

Chase Clymer

Yeah. I kind of dare myself to do it. I'll even put a number behind it sometimes. I need to talk to three people when I'm allowed to leave. 

Allison Herman

Right. It forces you to do it. You definitely have to be on and be in that mindset. But it definitely pays off in the long run. 

Chase Clymer

Now, Allie, we talked a lot about all the awesome things that you've done since you purchased the business. Is there anything I didn't ask you about that you think would resonate with our audience? 

Allison Herman

I think the biggest thing is we are building this as a brand of business that's first and foremost. What's really near and dear to my heart is creating a community of girls, uplifting girls and girls feeling confident and girls feeling comfortable. 

We do a lot of that through our ambassador program, but that's really what our product base and mission is about is we want girls to feel fashionable, but also make sure that they feel comfortable and that they're able to focus on what's in front of them versus constantly pulling out their clothes and make sure that they really feel and move with that level of confidence. I think that that's really just the basis around why we do what we do and why I have such an involvement in the company and really why I started this venture. 

Chase Clymer

That's amazing. Now you've talked so much about the passion that you put into these products. If I'm listening to this and I've got a young teen or tween girl and I'm interested in checking out your products. Where should I go? What should I do? 

Allison Herman

Yeah. So you can go to dragonwing.com. It's the best way to find us. All of our products, new launches are there. Then our Instagram is probably our biggest social media platform. So that's at Dragonwing. 

Chase Clymer

Awesome. Allison, thank you so much for coming on the show today. 

Allison Herman

Thank you, Chase. This was so fun. Thank you. 

Chase Clymer

We can't thank our guests enough for coming on the show and sharing their knowledge and journey with us. We've got a lot to think about and potentially add into our own business. You can find all the links in the show notes. 

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Lastly, if you're a store owner looking for an amazing partner to help get your Shopify store to the next level, reach out to Electric Eye at electriceye.io/connect.

Until next time!