322 | Turning Returns Into Business Insights | with Michael Hughes

Michael Hughes

At the end of the day, the more efficient you can get, the more fuel it gives you  to go out and grow and get more customers.  

Chase Clymer

Welcome to Honest Ecommerce, a podcast dedicated to cutting through the BS and finding actionable advice for online store owners. I'm your host, Chase Clymer. And I believe running a direct-to-consumer brand does not have to be complicated or a guessing game. 

On this podcast, we interview founders and experts who are putting in the work and creating  real results. 

I also share my own insights from running our top Shopify consultancy, Electric Eye. We cut the fluff in favor of facts to help you grow your Ecommerce business.

Let's get on with the show.

Chase Clymer

We're at day 2 of E-tail. We're back. We're interviewing an amazing founder and CEO, Michael Hughes from PlushBeds. Michael, welcome to the show. 

Michael Hughes

Thank you. Thank you. Happy to be here. 

Chase Clymer

I'm excited to chat. So first and foremost, I want to shout out E-tail for making this happen. They connected us. How's the event been so far for you? 

Michael Hughes

It's been great. I think everyone is talking about AI right now. And initially, that's the buzz term. I think my housekeeper used AI to clean our room this morning. So everyone is using AI in everything. But it's nice seeing from the stage what everyone is talking about and really starting to see where it's being integrated into Ecommerce.  

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. Well, I'll make sure to circle back to see how you guys are integrating into plush beds. But before that, just quickly let the audience know if they're not familiar with the brand, like what are the products you're bringing to market these days? 

Michael Hughes

So our main focus is in the natural and organic space. That's where we've always lived. That's our wheelhouse. And we're just constantly trying to evolve in that area. And I think that that's just an area, especially after COVID. There are a lot of people that realize the importance of building your immune system and your health and your wellness and all of that. And I think that natural and organic plays a big role with that.  

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. Beds are historically made from inorganic products and some interesting products. I'm sure we'll get into a little bit more about the differentiators of your guys' brand. But first, just take me back in time to where  what was going on in your life? Where did this idea come from, why just start a mattress company?  

Michael Hughes

I kind of got into it by mistake is probably the best way to explain it. 

Chase Clymer

That's how everyone starts a good business. 

Michael Hughes

Yeah, pretty much. So my wife and I moved from Florida to Los Angeles and it typically says, you move for two reasons, it's either for a job or for a woman. And so we moved out to LA, my wife is in the acting profession, and that was really where to go to take the next step. My background was financial services. 

And it was kind of, it was fun. The money was great, but it was a kind of golden handcuff. I really didn't enjoy it anymore. And I was looking for a change. So when we moved out to LA, I was looking to pivot into something, but I wasn't quite sure what that was.

And I saw the growth of just Ecommerce and where it was going. And Amazon at the time was exploding, you know, year over year record growth. So I knew I wanted to do something in Ecommerce, but I wasn't quite sure what. And so around that same time, when we moved to LA, we needed furniture. And one of the things we needed was a mattress. We went to local mattress stores. We pretty much saw the same five mattresses in every mattress store that was around.

Quick backstory on that. One of the motivations for the company, my father was diagnosed with Parkinson's when he was 40 years old  and he passed when he was 64 years old. So Parkinson's they say is either hereditary and no one in our family ever had it before, or it's from exposure to chemicals. And so that's something I, and my belief is, everyone's genetically a little bit different.

And you and I might be exposed to the same chemicals our whole lives and you may have no,  it may not impact your life. Then, and whereas another person might get something. So, and I don't fully, I don't think anyone really fully understands at this point still where that comes from.  And we didn't go crazy with it. We weren't making our own deodorant, growing our own granola, but if there's something that we can do in our lives to be a little healthier, that's what we wanted to do.

And so we looked around, we couldn't really find a natural mattress  in any of the local stores. So I went online. And I think back then, this was going back to 2008, there were maybe about 10 companies that were selling mattresses online.  And they were the Tempur-Pedics of the world. And then every other site felt like a no-name independent company.  So we wound up finding one that we thought looked good.

I called them and I bought the mattress online. The guy called me three days later on the cell phone  because he lost my credit card number. And he asked me if I could give him my credit card number again. I'm sure it was all PCI compliant. 

Chase Clymer

Yeah. 

Michael Hughes

I asked him, "Is what you do that hard?” And he said, “I'm just trying to keep up with the business. I sell about 10 of these a day.” And so that was kind of a little light bulb going off in my head. This guy's not prospecting in financial services.

You're prospecting every day. If you're not calling and setting up appointments, you have no activity, you make no money. Right? So I said, this guy didn't make a phone call. I called him.  The guy answered on a cell phone. He could be anywhere in the world  and he's selling 10 of these a day. I wonder if there's any money in mattresses. 

So our mattress got delivered about two weeks later. I looked at the address that was  on the box.  It came from a different state from where this guy's website was from and where his phone number's area code was. I said, this guy didn't even make this mattress. He took my order. He emailed it to a dropshipper who made the mattress and shipped it to me. 

So I went to the address that was on the law tag and I Googled the address and I found out the name of the manufacturer and I called them and I said, can you send me your wholesale price sheet? I might be interested in selling your mattresses.  And 10 minutes later, I had the wholesale price sheet. I went right to the mattress I just bought. I pulled out what the shipping cost was.

And I realized he made about 500 bucks. So this guy made 500 bucks. He's doing this 10 times a day answering his cell phone. He can be in Belize, he could be anywhere in the world. I was interested. So I was up in Boston that company. 

Chase Clymer

What year was that?  

Michael Hughes

That was 2008. 

Chase Clymer

Okay. 

Michael Hughes

And so I happened to be going to New York the following month. So when I was in New York, I drove up to Boston, and I set up a meeting with them. I walked through the factory where my mattress was made.

I shook some hands and I left and I left and I was in the mattress business. I had no clue how to build a website. I had no clue about e-commerce and marketing. And I especially had no clue about mattresses. And that's how I started. 

Chase Clymer

Now, was this first iteration of your business? Is it PlushBeds or was this a 2.0 or 3.0 evolution of your time in the industry? 

Michael Hughes

They were PlushBeds. And I credit my wife. My wife is the one that came up with the name. I first thought, I came up with a bunch of different names and none of my names are anywhere near as good as what she came up with. And she came up with a name and you know, one thing in the mattress space, are so many names that either the domain is already taken  or the name is copyrighted or I'm sorry, trademarked. And so it's amazing. You have to go through a hundred names to find one name that would be available. 

And she just mentioned, how about plush beds? It just turned out it was available. 

Chase Clymer

Luck of the draw on that one. Now, was your first product offering  just almost cloning this guy's business that you called before?  

Michael Hughes

No, we spoke to our supplier and they had 15 memory foam mattresses and two natural latex mattresses. And so initially, we didn't know anything about the space. I didn't leave there thinking the next 15, 20 years of my life is going to be in the mattress business. This is a good place to start. If you want to learn how to swim, you could read every book in the world, but you're never going to learn how to swim until you jump in the water. 

Chase Clymer

Exactly. 

Michael Hughes

And so my thought was I needed a product and a product is going to give me a vehicle to start to learn Ecommerce, internet marketing. And if this doesn't work, I'll pivot to something else and continue to move from there. But fortunately it worked. And so we stayed with it.

But when we started, we had memory foam mattresses, and then we had two natural latex mattresses. So we put everything together and we tried to market everything. And memory foam, we just got destroyed. The competition was already fairly fierce in memory foam. There weren't a lot of players, but the ones that were out there were spending a lot of money. 

I remember the first time I introduced Google Ads, and we put a campaign out and one night, we spent $200. And I just remember being devastated, sitting on my couch thinking we got, I don't know, maybe 50 clicks and they came and bounced around on the site and left within a minute. And I sat devastated thinking of all the things I could have bought with that $200. And it's just gone. But that's just the beginning and then started to move from there.

So we started to learn a little bit. We spoke to our supplier about it. They said, maybe try some niche markets. Then we bought a latex mattress and why don't we try to go full force into latex? And so we really started to move away from the memory foam mattresses and put all of our focus in the natural latex mattresses. And we just got obsessed with understanding the market. We know what we like. We know what we like the feel of it.

We started to look at every competitor. We studied every competitor's website. We knew their mattresses better than they knew their mattresses. I would like to think, I would say. But we looked at where the holes were in their PDVs and where we think we can differentiate ourselves. And that's really where we started to emphasize and that's when we started to sell. 

I remember the first day we also, going along with this, we were also working on building a website before the days of the Shopify's and all of that were out there. Our first site was OS Commerce and everything had to be hard coded. I remember the first step was you needed photography. 

And so we hired a photographer, I think off Craigslist, who went into our supplier and our supplier had one showroom and dark blue walls. And this guy charged 800 bucks to go in and take pictures of all these mattresses. And I was so ignorant. I didn't know what I didn't know.  And we got the photography back. I wasn't there. 

So he sent it to me in California. I'm expecting restoration hardware, pottery barn,  what I got looked like used mattresses on Craigslist with a blue tint on every single mattress. I realized, you know, very quickly that we had a lot to learn in putting that together.

But we finally built a website. It took us almost a year to build a website. I think the first 30 days, we had 50 visitors. I think I was 30 of those visitors checking the site every day, seeing it was still up.  

Chase Clymer

Making sure that it wasn't broken. Yeah. Finding things to fix. 

Michael Hughes

Yeah. Where are all the people?  There's got to be something wrong.  But then I realized that you can build a great website. But if  you don't know how to drive traffic to your site, it doesn't matter. 

Chase Clymer

I say that all the time. It's especially when on the consulting side of this, talking to brands that want to build a net new brand or they want to migrate from something to Shopify. I'm like, all right, let's say this goes great. We work together. We build this. How are you getting people to see it? What's the plan there? First of all, if a consultant isn't asking you that, you're talking to the wrong consultant. 

Michael Hughes

Definitely. 

Chase Clymer

The wrong agency, freelancer, whatever. If they're not asking you how you're going to show people this new store you've built, they are not really incentive isn't aligned with yours because the goal should be sales. 

Michael Hughes

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. you could I think that you can start to identify the difference between someone that's experienced that knows what they're doing and wants to help to move you across the finish line versus someone that's just a hired gun. And they're doing it just for the money. 

Chase Clymer

They're for the paycheck. So let's do 2008 you're in the mattress business 2009 you have a website. Are you also now niched down into organic when this website launches?

Michael Hughes

Yes. Yeah. We started with memory foam, but we would say very quickly within six months moved away from memory foam and really put our focus on natural and organic.  And that was really where our space was. We really built out our PVPs. put, that's where our focus was. And we started to sell. 

I just got obsessed with driving traffic. I got obsessed with paid search,  shopping comparison engines at the time, SEO. And we really did everything we could to drive traffic and awareness.

Chase Clymer

Do you remember how long from that meeting at your supplier's house to the first organic sale you had was? Am I organic? That can include paid. 

Michael Hughes

Yeah. It was about a year, just over a year, I want to say about a year and three months. In fact, I remember the very first day we got our first sale. And I was shocked because I decided to do a test order. There's no test. Who ran a test order yesterday? And I couldn't believe it was an actual real sale. I remember calling our supplier, we got our first sale. 

Chase Clymer

Yeah. And then how long until the next one? When did it start getting monthly, weekly, daily? 

Michael Hughes

So after that, we also focus on toppers as well, which is a lower AOV. And so after that, I believe we sold a latex topper and that came in on a Monday. And then a week later, another one came in on a Monday. So Mondays became known as the sale day, you know, and the weekend can't wait till Monday but then they started to trickle in a little more. 

That we made our first sale. I want to say it was August of  2009. And by the end of December, I think we completed the year with just under a hundred thousand in sales.  And for me, that was the real confirmation that this is gonna work. 

Chase Clymer

Yeah. Well, you just took the words out of my mouth. My question was like, when was that moment of like, all right, there's something here. When did you go all in on this? Because I'm assuming you're still working a full-time job. 

Michael Hughes

We know I trained. When I transitioned the way my company worked in financial services, I still had residual income coming in. That income was getting smaller and smaller. So I knew that runway was going to end in a matter of time. So I went all in.

And it still took that long because I made every possible mistake that you can make in trying to launch an Ecommerce website. With everything we did, we worked with developers that were in India and we worked with them back and forth in hard coding everything in OS commerce. And after six months, they got hit with a virus and they had no backups. And we lost six months worth of work and had to start over again. So we had every problem you can possibly imagine to get up and running.

Chase Clymer

Hey, Shopify store owners. Have you ever wondered if your store is leaving money on the table? Imagine increasing sales without spending more money on ads. Sounds too good to be true. Well, it's not.

I'd like to introduce you to StoreTester. StoreTester is a done-for-you conversion rate optimization service for Shopify merchants. 

Could your store benefit from increased conversion rates, higher average order values, and improved revenue per visitor? StoreTester could be the perfect partner for you. From ideation to implementation, this full service A-B testing service takes all of the guesswork out of improving Shopify stores.

Stortester does all the work for you while offering month-to-month transparent fixed pricing. It gets even better. They believe in their service so much they're offering the first test for free for qualified merchants. 

Let me repeat, the first test is free for qualified merchants. Curious to see if you qualify for a free test? Reach out today. Visit storetester.com to schedule an intro call.

That's www.S-T-O-R-E-T-E-S-T-E-R.com. Schedule an intro call today to see if you qualify for a free test. 

Hey everybody, today's podcast is brought to you by Intelligems, the ultimate profit optimization tool for Shopify merchants. I'm telling you this, obviously, you know I own an agency. We use Intelligems when we're running split testing and CRO stuff for all of our clients. 

Are you looking to maximize your profits? Intelligems offers data-driven solutions to optimize your content, prices, discounts, and shipping rates. Join over 500 happy clients who have seen significant improvements.

With Intelligems, you gain control over your Ecommerce economics, boosting your profit per visitor by an astonishing 36%. 

But that's not all. Intelligems users report a 54.62% increase in revenue per visitor and a remarkable rise in conversion rates. 

How does Intelligems do it? Through a suite of tools that allows you to A-B test everything on your Shopify store, from landing pages to product prices and shipping rates. 

Imagine testing new layouts, offers, even a new Shopify theme with ease. 

We're testing a new landing page for our client on a new theme versus an old landing page on their old theme right now. 

Intelligems empowers you to find the perfect price point for your products and optimize your shipping strategy. 

But there's more. Boost your average order value with customized campaign offers and discover if your customers prefer free shipping or a lower list price. 

With over $100 million in incremental profit generated, billion transactions ran through their software. They have over 400 million shoppers that have gone through their tests. 

Intelligems is not a tool. It's a game changer for your business. 

Are you ready to transform your Shopify store's profitability? Book a demo today at intelligems.io. Empower your brand to reach new heights. 

Again, that's intelligems.io. Intelligems, giving superpowers to your customer acquisition, retention, and overall profitability.

Chase Clymer

Fast forward a little bit. When did things start cooking? When were you starting to get in a role? What year was it?  

Michael Hughes

I want to say it was probably right after that. We probably finished just under 100,000 that first year. The next year, we went from about 100,000 to 1.3 million. 

Chase Clymer

That's the growth that everybody wants. 

Michael Hughes

Yes.

Chase Clymer

What work was involved in seeing that 12x ROI or growth?

Michael Hughes

We were obsessed. We were obsessed with traffic. We were obsessed with the customer experience. We were obsessed with what our competitors were offering. Looking at SEO, who's ranking where. As soon as somebody would outrank us, we would go and look at what they were doing? How are they doing it? Why is it that way? And it was just attention. It was  relentless attention. 

Chase Clymer

At the beginning, we talked about how AI is starting to take over things now. How are you guys incorporating AI into the business these days?  

Michael Hughes

I would love to say here, 6 ways that we're just crushing it with AI. We haven't fully figured it out. We use ChatGPT, we use Claude. And basic, I think, the very level one of what everyone is using it for. But I think there's so much more that we can do with it that we haven't even tapped the beginning of the potential for. 

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. Yeah. And almost every other booth inside this vendor hall behind us here at eTail, AI is on there. They're a kind vendor thing there. And some are doing it in a fun, unique way. Some it feels a little like they had to do it for their investors sake. But yeah, it's great to hear  from a successful brand. It's like, yeah, we don't know what we're doing with AI yet. It's still pretty new. I think that a lot of younger brands are getting stressed that they haven't figured out how to automate their life away. 

Michael Hughes

Yeah. 

Chase Clymer

It still takes hard work. 

Michael Hughes

Yeah, no, 100%. But I think a lot of you know, there's a whole generation right now that they're just growing up on this and it's native to them. It's going to be odd talking to 10, 15 years or no people that they've never not had AI and so but it's just going through the learning curves. 

Chase Clymer

Now, at some point in your journey, while still kind of the natural and organic space of the mattresses you ventured more into luxury. Tell me about going after that customer demographic. 

Michael Hughes

We really started to see who our target demographic was. There were a lot of them. As we started to grow, companies like Casper came on the scene and they did an amazing job in raising awareness for the whole industry. They raised  several rounds of capital.

Chase Clymer

They spent it all on ads. 

Michael Hughes

They spent it all on ads. But my personal opinion, I think we all benefit from 

Chase Clymer

Rising tide raises all ships. 

Michael Hughes

100%. 

Chase Clymer

You saw it across different verticals, not just mattresses, watches. There are so many direct-to-consumer darlings out there that  burned their seed money to build 10 other businesses, tangentially, just by increasing the awareness that, oh, I can buy that product online. 

Michael Hughes

Yes. And honestly, before pre-Casper days, people would call in and they would ask, how are you going to mail a mattress and put a mattress in my mailbox? After Casper, we didn't have those calls anymore. And it became normal. They normalized buying a mattress online. So we do have to give credit where creditors do. They spend a lot of money to do it and we appreciate that. I think that helped. 

But as we started to grow and a lot of companies were copying and cloning, I think at one point there were 175 copycat companies that were copying Casper. And Casper really went after that younger demographic. If you look at all of their photographs, the mattress was on the ground.  It wasn't on a bed frame. 

They were really  targeting that younger demographic in college, right out of college, starting a family. And we found that our customers are of a different demographic. They were more of the established, more professionals, more fluent  that were going for natural and organic. I just started thinking about, if money was no object  and you wanted to buy the world's greatest mattress. 

Chase Clymer

Yeah. How can I make the best products for that ICP? 

Michael Hughes

Yeah. And so that journey  took us out of the United States. You wouldn't find that in the United States. It took us over to Europe and then eventually took us over to England. And in England, are  dozens of mattress companies that have mattresses over $10,000 each, some over $100,000 each. The most expensive one we found was the Heston's Vividus mattress. It's $600,000 for  one mattress. From what I heard, there are two people that sleep on it that we've heard of. I think one was the Queen of England and Drake.  

Chase Clymer

That sounds like a business in and of itself. One night's sleep or just take a nap on this thing.  

Michael Hughes

I know. Yeah, tell me about it.  And it truly is. It's a masterpiece. It's a beautiful mattress. There's a lot going into it. A lot went into the design. But so we started to look at that and say, okay, well, how can we take some of this and bring it back to where we are in California? And it started when we looked at a lot of the materials and it was  horsehair and cashmere and silk.  

And so we found out who the suppliers were in England and we bought a lot of those materials and brought them over. And then we started to look at a lot of the machinery that they use and we invested in that machinery and we brought that machinery over.  

There was one product in particular that all of these mattresses had in common is called a calico coil. And it's an organic coil that's individually sewn. So if there are 1200 or 1500 coils that are in that mattress, they're each individually sewn because it's organic cotton. And so we started to look at where we buy these coils? And it turns out that you can't buy those coils. 

There was a company, I want to say they were in Germany, Spool Anderson, that used to make this machine. But the 900 pound gorilla in the spring business was Leggett & Platt. Leggett & Platt bought Spool Anderson and then shut down that division. And what I heard is that anytime one of those machines comes on the secondary market, they would step in and buy it and decommission it. They didn't want anyone to have those machines. 

Chase Clymer

It's very interesting.

Michael Hughes

And so I started, we continued to reach out and find out, is there any way we can get one? And I spoke to one supplier and he said, you're not going to find one of those machines, but there are five companies that are in England right now that are running these machines in their own factories. 

All their departments were set up by the same guy, but he's retired now. And he said, but I have his phone number. And so I said, let me have his phone number. And so he was 75 years old. And I reached out to him and I called him and I spoke to him about making one of these or having one. And he said that, you're not going to buy that machine anywhere. But I think I know of a company who can build it, but they're not going to build it on spec. 

Before I retired, I spoke to a company in depth and I think they have the capability to do it. So I said, would you be willing to set up a call? We can speak with them. And so we set up that call, we had the conversation and we decided we would be the one to sponsor building this machine.

And so this was a period of about two years of going back and forth. They would make a prototype. They would ship it to me. I would look at it. I would send it to this guy in England. He would look at it, give us feedback. And then we would give them the feedback and it went over and over and over. Finally got it to where it was spot on perfect. Exactly what it is in the UK. The guy from the UK, he's been doing this for over 50 years, worked with companies that make and sell mattresses over a hundred thousand dollars. His

His requirements and his standards were 1 to 10. They were like 15. And so it met his standards. He was very pleased, very happy with it. So then they had to rebuild the whole machine. Instead of just demo pieces to get it to do what it needed to do. They built it, they got it set, COVID hit. 

Chase Clymer

Oh, no. But also, I know what happened during COVID.

Michael Hughes

Yeah, oh yeah. And at the same time, we had to shift our focus because sales just went through the roof and then it was supplier issues and all of that. But it finally got to the point that travel became available again. They shipped the machine to us. We had a whole team that came over to set it up in our factory. This guy that we  pulled out of retirement, he came over  and put the machine together. Now we're one of the only companies  in the United States that have the capability to make a calico coil.

Chase Clymer

That's amazing. 

Michael Hughes

Yeah. And so we put that together. We built one of the mattresses we put together called the Royal Bliss. Just a homage to the roots of coming from England. And it's just an amazing, beautiful mattress that has horsehair, cashmere, silk, calico coils, organic latex. It's side stitched, which takes five hours for one technician, one craftsman to hand stitch the mattress all the way around this compression tufted.  

And it's the exact same mattress that you would find over in England for $30,000, $40,000, $50,000. And now we're able to make those mattresses here. 

Chase Clymer

That's amazing. Now, we talked a lot about the journey. And I know we fast forwarded a little bit.  Is there anything that you think we overlooked that would resonate with our audience that you want to share today?  

Michael Hughes

We're a bootstrap company. We've always been a bootstrap company. So, we didn't have the luxury of burning through a media spend and only losing 5 million this year. If we lost 5 million, if we lost a million, we would have been out of business. That maybe didn't enable us to grow as fast as other companies. But it also required us to have a very disciplined approach. 

And we would constantly look at the P&L to understand where we can get more efficient? And at the end of the day, the more efficient you can get, the more fuel it gives you to go out and grow and get more customers.  And I think returns was a big area. So in the mattress space, when you have a return, it's 100% loss. One, customers can't put the genie back in the bottle to ship the mattress back to you. 

But two, even if they could, once you get a mattress that someone else has slept on, you can't sell that mattress again by loss. And so anytime there was a return, it was a pure loss. And so what we did is when customers wanted to return their mattress we would call them and say, we'll facilitate and help to remove the mattress. 

And of course, you're going to get a full refund for what our guarantee was. But can you help us out? We're growing our company. We'd love to know what you didn't like about the mattress? And we would just ask questions. And we looked at that as it's going to cost us the cost of that mattress. So we're going to get information. We're going to get research. One of the things I don't see today with newer companies starting out is they lose that touch with their customer.

They work in a silo. And if someone doesn't like something, someone wants to return something, that is the biggest golden nugget of growth. Because if customers don't like something about your brand, they're going to be vocal about it. They're going to tell you about it. The question is, what do you do with that information? 

Chase Clymer

Yep. 

Michael Hughes

Right. And so we would listen and we would understand what we learned and what we heard were that customers wanted different firmnesses. They wanted to change and adjust things.  So initially when we were buying from our supplier up in Boston,

We took a lot of this feedback and we went to them with a bunch of ideas on how we can make the mattress better. And at the time they either couldn't or wouldn't  make the changes to that mattress for us. So that was one of the pivotal moments in our company that we couldn't find another supplier who would do that for us. So we decided to become our own supplier. And that enabled us to do that. And in the beginning, again, we had no money. We started a massive manufacturing factory.

It was a 1000 square foot storage unit, you know, in a complex with other storage units. And I remember the first day I bought a latex, I bought a container of latex. I bought some organic cotton covers and some cardboard boxes and they barely fit. There was one roll-up door. Okay. But yeah, so we wound up taking all the materials out into the parking lot after, you know, at seven o'clock all the cars would leave for the day. And we would build mattresses under the streetlight. 

Chase Clymer

Awesome. 

Michael Hughes

And that's where we started. 

Chase Clymer

Michael, we are running out of time. On Location does put some constraints on it. So for those that are interested in these amazing mattresses you're making, where should they go? What should they do? 

Michael Hughes

Go to plushbeds.com. 

Chase Clymer

Thanks so much for coming on the show. 

Michael Hughes

Thank you.  

Chase Clymer

We can't thank our guests enough for coming on the show and sharing their knowledge and journey with us. We've got a lot to think about and potentially add into our own business. You can find all the links in the show notes. 

You can subscribe to the newsletter at honestecommerce.co to get each episode delivered right to your inbox. 

If you're enjoying this content, consider leaving a review on iTunes, that really helps us out. 

Lastly, if you're a store owner looking for an amazing partner to help get your Shopify store to the next level, reach out to Electric Eye at electriceye.io/connect.

Until next time!