247 | Seeking Advice From People Who Get You | with Albert Matheny

Albert Matheny  

I didn't get good advisors for a long time. And once I found them, they helped point out some things, which was really cool. So if you can find a good advisor, it's helpful. 

Chase Clymer  

Welcome to Honest Ecommerce, a podcast dedicated to cutting through the BS and finding actionable advice for online store owners. I'm your host, Chase Clymer. And I believe running a direct-to-consumer brand does not have to be complicated or a guessing game. 

On this podcast, we interview founders and experts who are putting in the work and creating  real results. 

I also share my own insights from running our top Shopify consultancy, Electric Eye. We cut the fluff in favor of facts to help you grow your Ecommerce business.

Let's get on with the show.

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Honest Ecommerce. I'm your host, Chase Clymer. 

And today I'm welcoming to the show the CEO of Promix Nutrition, Albert Matheny. Welcome to the show. 

Albert Matheny  

Thanks for having me, Chase.

Chase Clymer  

Awesome. Alright. So for those that are unaware, can you quickly just talk about the types of products that ProMix is bringing to the market? 

Albert Matheny

Yeah. We started with proteins. We're the first or right there when it came to 10 years ago doing grass-fed whey protein. 

That was something we started with. And then as the company grew, we just started having more inquiries into vegan proteins, collagen. 

I talked to athletes, they wanted pre-workouts. And so it really expanded there. We covered the full suite of products you would think of when you think of supplements. 

Chase Clymer  

Awesome. Awesome. So now take me back in time to when this idea first happened. 

What were the next steps from going from an idea to an actual product, I guess? 

Albert Matheny  

Yeah. Quick context was just... I grew up in Gainesville, Florida. It's where Gatorade is from. Big athletic town. 

I ran track at the University of Florida. I went there. My dad was a professor.

I grew up a couple of blocks from Dr. Cade who started Gatorade. So I was around Gatorade products and was kind of like, so my, you know, there's not much going on in Gainesville, but you like sports and you like having that insight into, okay, this is a potential business. 

Outside of that, I didn't really have any sort of business people, if you're from a small town, like probably doctors and lawyers, who you think of when you think of successful people in town. 

And then really just, I honestly Googled and started trying to learn and I started out setting up my own certified organic handling facility and talking to farms that did dairy and it built from there. 

So it was very organic. I definitely did not, you think about how to spin up an Ecom brand today. It's a lot easier. 

There's a lot of, you can just click a couple buttons and end up with something. But this was really like I had no connections. I had no just wasn't an ecosystem built. 

So it was really like I was packing protein bags in a facility that I got certified and doing all that from an early stage. 

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely. Now when you had this idea to build this business, did you do any kind of validation to see if the market even wanted what you were trying to sell? 

Albert Matheny

Not really. I think about... Well, a lot of times I still see parallels in other markets. 

So before the whole great yogurt wave, there was like a yogurt wave prior to that. 

And yogurt was one of those categories where it had a premium over something like a standard kind of milk. 

And I started to see brands that were talking a little bit more about, where's this milk that's in the yogurt from? How are these cows raised? What are the cultures in the yogurt? 

And more nuanced conversation around stuff rather than just, like, milk is milk and orange juice is orange juice, what kind of oranges or whatever. 

So basically taking that kind of framework and saying, all right, I see that there's protein. I'm using these Gatorade products. They don't feel the best but they help me with the fuel or whatever. 

But where does this stuff come from? And then I took that framework and just said, when it comes to protein, if I go to the farmer's market, why can't I have that same approach when it comes to making a whey protein, for example. 

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely. Now, when you first had the idea when you first had a sample product in your hand, how long did that take you? 

Albert Matheny  

It took a little while just because there was a lot of basic business setup that I had no idea. 

I was literally calling the SBA and being like, can you connect me with somebody who knows how to start a business? 

And very, very basic stuff, which is cool because the government actually does have a system where if you have no idea what you're doing, they do have a system to help foster that, which is unique probably to America a bit.

But, you know, once I got the basic stuff, how to set up a, you know, LLC or S corp or whatever and then it was probably eight weeks, the actual me doing it, it was full of soups and nuts or however you want to think about it. 

Like I designed the label, I figured out the packaging, I found scoops, all those things kind of came together. I think I'd do a good job parallel tracking stuff, so there's just a bunch of balls in the air all at once.

I think it was about 8 weeks and I had a basic product. I also knew I wasn't going to try to come out of the gate and start a really complicated thing. 

I was literally just selling protein. Very, very simple.

Chase Clymer  

Awesome. So you have this basic product. And you know, you know it's... In your mind, you've built an MVP basically. You're like, let's give this thing a shot. 

How did you find customers? Where did you go? How did you try to sell this? 

Albert Matheny  

Yeah, it was definitely not... I would never say the business is taking off since I've realized that I'm a bit of an idealist where I think that you can just make a great product and people are going to find it. 

And that's obviously completely false. Everyone that's like, I want to meet more great product people so you can bolt on like the top of the funnel because that's what our business is now. 

So, I kind of started going to, like I said, the yogurt, going to health food stores and independent stores where like I saw a lot of other kind of products that were not in the protein category for sure because there weren't a lot of mom and pop protein companies, but there were mom and pop kimchi or mom and pop, yogurt or a goat milk or whatever. 

And so going into those stores and starting to bring the bags to buyers. 

And that worked. I started to get people aware of the product. People liked it. Stores would reorder. 

I'd set up a basic website. People would find the website. 

I think it was important again, where like, you know, I'm not good at marketing, but there are people, if you make a really good niche product, they'll find it, for sure. 

Like if you're like, oh, I'm doing some kind of mushroom variety that's super rare, there's probably not, if you Google that, there's probably maybe five sellers of some niche mushroom, so doing a grass-fed whey protein when 99% of people had not heard their word grass-fed, except these like fringe healthy type people, and they found the product. 

And then, fast forward a little bit, Amazon was new then and being a new product in a new category, then things started to go. 

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. So let's talk about timelines. When was that? 

Albert Matheny  

2011-ish. 

Chase Clymer  

So you are getting in front of your customers by going to where they are, which are these more specialized health food adjacent smaller retailers, get some wholesale accounts, then you launch on Amazon. 

And does that just turn the business upside down? 

It just started to work a little bit. And again, I mean, I wish you could go back now with what I know and you'd demolish. But it is what it is, so it was a new frontier. 

I still didn't even advertise. It was very basic images that I did up on Amazon and it worked, and people started buying it. 

And there was just, again, it was a little bit of a blue ocean as far as that. There were a couple big brands on Amazon, but there's a big segment of the market that was like, all right.

Like there just weren't many players outside the big brands. It was like optimum nutrition. 

These big brands you've seen at GNC for 30 years. Um, they had their presence, but you know, seeing a product that was clearly more natural, spoke to a lot of people. 

Because the whole supplement space, that's what I love, still do. 

It’s gotten more homogeneous, but when whole foods used to be really trailblazing, you would go through the aisles and you could see where certain, again, parallel categories were like, oh, somebody put... Instead of a plastic thing, they put it in glass. And that totally elevates the category. 

And so that's what I did with proteins.I want to be in a different bag. Everything's in a plastic jug. 

I want to be in a bag or something like that. 

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely. So when did things really start to scale and start to take off for the business? 

Albert Matheny  

There's like two different points. 

One was still not really leaning into the marketing side, but figuring out Amazon more and spending a bit of money on Amazon.  

And the business started to crank along and was profitable and had a good medium seven figures for a number of years and throwing off good profits.

And then a few years ago, I started a gym in New York in 2013 and it’s still around. And that was really a community piece because E-com, there's more of an ecosystem now, but you're basically on your computer by yourself most of the day. So it wasn't really fun.

And I'd always been training in athletics. So I opened a gym with some buddies that created a community piece that I really enjoyed. 

And through that, I met my current business partner, Devon. He was involved in another gym and then we just  had the same thoughts around food and nutrition. 

And he grew up on a farm in New Hampshire. So we were all in the same headspace. 

Once he came in, he's got a sizable audience on Instagram and also just as amazing at talking and just getting out there and networking.

Then the business has doubled a little bit more than doubled the last couple of years. 

So it's been, like I said earlier, that top of the funnel bolt-ons are really good products because there's a huge amount of repeat customer rate, everything like that, but just unawareness. 

I had products where I almost discontinued them. I've been selling for two years. 

And then people, once Devon came in, they're like, wow, this new product is so great. I'm so happy you made this product. 

I'm like, yo, it's been around for like two years. Or people suggest ideas where I'm like… I used to do a kids thing. I'm like, I did that. 

I tried that like 4 years ago and no one bought it. But now it's just, having that awareness out there that really matters. 

Chase Clymer  

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Chase Clymer   

Obviously, you guys found traction on Amazon, invested in there, saw it grow a bit. You brought in a business partner. 

Is that as a marketplace channel? Is that still the majority of the business or did you bring in your own website in the past few years?

Albert Matheny  

So that's definitely always been top of mind. Like I think Amazon has obviously grown, and there's massive businesses on Amazon. 

But also being on Amazon, you realize…you do not, they are in control. Your business is on or off with a listing coming down, which can be from the competitor saying something, random things that occur at Amazon errors on the backend. 

And so you can go from 100K a day on a product to zero, immediately. And that's not cool, obviously. 

And so even when Amazon was good, I'm like, I do not want to live or die by Amazon. And so I was very focused on building the DTC. 

Fortunately with Devon, like we knew that was the goal. We also believe, I think people have come around to this, but I've always thought you can't build a brand on Amazon. 

You can build a brand outside of Amazon and then people want to buy through Amazon.

I love buying through Amazon, but we were very focused on building a brand on our website, controlling that channel. 

And then Amazon is just another way that you can reach people. But we're aware of how much of our catalog we put on Amazon. 

New launches are always on there. We want to offer more value to our customers and more connection and personalization through our website.

So now, 2021, we guys flipped to DTC being more of the revenue and then ‘22 significantly more. 

And now Amazon, we've retooled a lot of stuff. It was really honestly neglected by me because I'm very like, it's not a very fun platform. 

I like to be creative and you just kind of have to play the Amazon game. And so we brought in some really great people on the Amazon side. 

And now Amazon is growing because it is one of those things where, it's the volume of dollars and customers that come through that channel, you cannot ignore it. It's just that's where most people shop. 

So I think we'll see at the end of this year. I think it's going to be about a 50-50 split. And I would be impressed if we can outpace Amazon growth because we're getting back to that first page listing. 

And that's like exponential growth when you go from like second page to first page to now you're in the top 20. And then it's hard to say. 

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely, Albert.

We're talking about all these awesome things that have happened over the past decade, plus even. 

Looking back though, is there anything that stands out? Is there maybe a mistake you made along the way that you want to be like, Hey, I did this. You guys should not do this. 

Albert Matheny  

Thinking that you can make great products and people buy them. I would be super retired by now. 

I've been fortunate to work in different organizations too throughout this, invest in other companies and advise or be in an active role. 

And I think there's always different people who have different skills and brains in the business. 

And there's like the engineering side that typically says, “The f*ck does marketing do? You know, like, honestly, we don't need them. Let's just build an amazing product.” 

And the marketing is like, “Literally we are the entire business. We make all the money. These guys just need to make what we tell them to.” 

And then there's like the creative side that, you know, does creative stuff. 

And so like finding, realizing that you have to blend all those things together. 

What the package looks like really matters. What the base product is really matters. Marketing really matters. 

And having a balance around that. Most people are shifted one direction or the other, “I think I'm relatively intelligent.” 

And I think a lot of people think, “Oh, marketing doesn't work on me.” So you're like, “Why do I need to market? I'm going to sell to people like me who will recognize this is a great product,” and you know that's not true. 

So, that's one thing I would say. 

Doing some basic stuff around, I don't err on the side of I'm more like a handshake guy, you know?

 I think being from the south and everything like that and just how I operate, I'm very straightforward with people. 

And in business, it's nice to do that. I see a lot of, once the space got kind of like cooler to be a founder, a lot of people came in that maybe came from more connected backgrounds or different things and their parents or whatever would be like, you need a lawyer, you need this operating agreement, you need all this stuff. 

And it would be so overbuilt that they've already spent $50,000 in legal fees before they've even done anything. 

And I'm like, that's crazy, but you should have some basic operating agreements with co-founders and different things like that, that are clear and simple. 

You don't have to reinvent the wheel on that stuff. You can do that very basically. 

But that's what I would say is like, you know, recognizing parts of the business that you don't naturally have an inclination towards that are equally important. 

So I think that's marketing for some people, it's aesthetic or branding for some people, and it's kind of the core engineering or like the actual product aspect, basic legal stuff. 

And that also, the basic legal thing extends to, I'm sure other people have seen this in Ecom, there's kind of ambulance chaser type things out there that go, oh, you didn't have this letter, the write on your package and basic stuff like that where it's avoidable. 

There's going to be pitfalls. So having someone that you can speak to. I didn't get good advisors for a long time and once I found them, they helped point out some things, which was really cool. 

So if you can find a good advisor, it's helpful. 

Chase Clymer

Oh, that was just... That could just be the whole podcast. 

But I'm not going to do people dirty like that. That was amazing... Those are some great insights there.

Now, if I'm listening to this podcast and I want to check out the product, where should I go? 

Albert Matheny

promixnutrition.com. You can go to Promix on Instagram. 

I would say that's one piece of advice. And this is more from the advisor side. 

Most brands try to do a bunch of different channels. You're like, “Oh, if this one's working, let me diversify.” And it's like, “Absolutely f*cking not.” If something's working, shut up. Do more of the thing that's working. 

And that's again, like what I would do. If I could go back and just say, “Albert, I don't care if you like Amazon or not, Amazon's working, just don't do anything else.” 

I would be retired, you know? And that's probably the best advice, you see the people that do that, do really well. 

I haven't been attracted to some of the vanity metric stuff, definitely don't be chasing articles. 

The people that are really crushing it are just, they're in a super focused zone of doing what works and just keep doing it. 

And they just keep doing it until they see clearly diminishing returns or you've really exhausted something and then you move on. 

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. And Albert, you are saying things that I've been saying for a very long time here. 

One thing is we're talking about getting caught up in the legal stuff. It's just like a lot of people start a business and they are doing business, but they're not selling a product and they're not making any money. 

And I was like, “That's not a business. That's a waste of money right now.” I don't know. It's like, go sell the thing.

And then the other thing is, so many times I'll talk to founders and they're starting to find product market fit and they're starting to do the thing. 

And they're like, “Yeah, so like Instagram works. We're gonna try TikTok and Snapchat too.” And I'm like, “No, no, no, no, no. Take all that budget. Put it into... You found it already. Just pour gas on the fire.” 

Albert Matheny  

I think people... A lot of times, like you, you've been around space and you know. 

And if you're a young founder, you don't know those things. And you think...Well, more is more, can I do these other things? 

And having someone who tells people…sometimes you don't recognize how special something that you're doing is, that it’s working. Or you need someone to tell you this isn't actually that great. 

So having a reality check right there is super helpful where you go.

Look, if you are this is your cack on Instagram, this is good. Keep doing this. 

I don't know what you're talking about if you're trying to do something else. 

Chase Clymer  

Oh, absolutely. Now, Albert, is there anything that I haven't asked you about today that you think would resonate with our audience? 

Albert Matheny

No. I was trying to think of helpful stuff. Definitely, not having too much money is helpful. 

Chase Clymer  

That's good. 

Albert Matheny

You need to be motivated. I've had times like I said, where the business was going very well. It was at a smaller scale but was very profitable. 

And I was like...Oh, I can try these new products or like, oh, we over optimized on something that no one cares about. That's like a personal thing. 

You have to realize where you are in that. If you want to have a business that is kind of more lifestyle-y and you want to do crazy stuff.

I over-design different packaging and the unique things that you have to keep in mind the margins of different things. 

I think that's, again, if you come from a non-traditional kind of background like me, I would consider a lot of people and they're successful and have done something like gone to Wharton or something like that, where they're a bit more like purebred as far as like spreadsheets are technical. 

And you get drilled on having things like, what's your gross margin? Like most founders that are creative or product-driven, that's kind of an afterthought. 

And it can be and it should be, you should try to do something that is so cool and unique and really, I think scratches like your own itch.

But then you also need to reality check that and say, can this actually ever get to a point where these margins make sense? Otherwise you don't have a business, you know? 

And I think that's actually a risk that can occur. I think it happens more, I've seen it when I've been involved in my hardware companies where, oh yeah, the cost of income downed and never happens and you just had this really expensive hardware thing. 

If the business doesn't make sense on the basic economics, like that has to be a dead end. It doesn't matter if the product is cool. Like, unless you can charge what you need to charge and people will pay it then it's not business. 

So some of those like basic business learnings where again, I just didn't have a network to get a mentorship early on.

But seven, eight years later, I finally started to find those people who have different backgrounds than me and are experts, CFO type or a CMO type that can just say, “Dude, that channel is great. Do it more," or "Hey, don't launch a product unless you've got at least this margin to start with, or it's just a non-starter.

Having those very clear guidelines helps. 

Chase Clymer  

Absolutely, Albert. This has been an amazing episode. Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing all your insights. 

Albert Matheny  

Yeah. It's awesome, Chase. I appreciate it, man. Thank you. 

Chase Clymer

We can't thank our guests enough for coming on the show and sharing their knowledge and journey with us. We've got a lot to think about and potentially add into our own business. You can find all the links in the show notes. 

You can subscribe to the newsletter at honestecommerce.co to get each episode delivered right to your inbox. 

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Lastly, if you're a store owner looking for an amazing partner to help get your Shopify store to the next level, reach out to Electric Eye at electriceye.io/connect.

Until next time!