301 | Crafting Green Products That Actually Work | with Jennifer Harper

Jennifer Harper

The idea of perfection is what we're all trying to pursue. But if we did that, then we'd never launch. 

Chase Clymer

Welcome to Honest Ecommerce, a podcast dedicated to cutting through the BS and finding actionable advice for online store owners. I'm your host, Chase Clymer. And I believe running a direct-to-consumer brand does not have to be complicated or a guessing game. 

On this podcast, we interview founders and experts who are putting in the work and creating  real results. 

I also share my own insights from running our top Shopify consultancy, Electric Eye. We cut the fluff in favor of facts to help you grow your Ecommerce business.

Let's get on with the show.

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Honest Ecommerce. 

Today, I'm welcoming to the show the CEO and founder of Cheekbone Beauty, a color cosmetics company helping the world see Indigenous faces, Jen Harper. Welcome to the show. 

Jennifer Harper

Thank you for having me. Really excited to be here. 

Chase Clymer

Yeah, we were already getting into it before we were recording. So I'm very excited to have this conversation with you.

First, though, at the top here, for people that aren't familiar with Cheekbone Beauty, quickly, what are the types of products you guys are bringing to market? What are you guys known for? 

Jennifer Harper

Yeah. So we say we are in the color cosmetics category, everything for lips, eyes, and face. And our whole mission is to create these products sustainably without adding to the landfill. And we use my indigenous roots to do that. 

Chase Clymer

That's amazing. That's amazing. Now...

Take me back in time. Where did the idea for this business come from? 

Jennifer Harper

Yeah. So definitely not your traditional path into entrepreneurship. I was actually in the food space, food industry, starting off in hospitality for like 10 years. And then went into sales and marketing for broad-line distribution like Sysco Foods. We see their trucks everywhere. And then went directly into seafood and spent 8 years there. 

But during that time, I had what I call this really crazy life-changing dream that happened in January of 2015. And all I remember from this dream is three native little girls covered in lip gloss, and they were giggling and laughing. I remember their rosy little cheeks and brown skin, and woke up and started writing out what is the foundation of our business plan to this day. 

And it was this idea of a social impact business. So using a portion of our profits to do something to support a cause and at the time, that was this whole idea of a scholarship fund. 

I was really a big fan of brands like Tommy Schultz and Patagonia, where I really did believe that it would be possible to create brands that were doing business but doing good at the same time. And that is the whole concept of our brand, even to this day. 

And so proudly, we did eventually launch that scholarship fund, but it did take quite a few years to get there. 

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. 

So you have this serendipitous dream, and you start to ideate on the mission and what you are going to do. How long until you launch your first product? 

Jennifer Harper

Yeah. And so we know all with the Ecommerce space over especially over 2015, 2016. These were like, I think the highs of that time. And it was relatively simple. 

I always say this to people, especially that I do a lot of public speaking for the brand now. It's kind of crazy to say how easy it was to start this. However, I didn't start the way we are now. So I really was utilizing white label, private label cosmetics companies to help make our products. 

It would be really simple. You could order small quantities or small minimum quantity orders back in that time. Obviously, paying a huge cost for those. But I found that partnership. They put our logo on products. We launched an Ecommerce store.

And from that dream, it was almost two years. 

And so even if it was relatively easy, I was still working my day job over that two year period. And what I was doing at that time, I read. I remember reading over a hundred books on business from 2015 to the end of 2016, because we finally launched the Ecommerce store November 26, 2016. 

I remember thinking, you do all of this work, but it's really interesting in Ecommerce. No one showed up except my mom and my husband, I thought at the time, but you're like, “Okay, it's finally ready.” 

Oh my goodness, if I go back and look at our first iteration of the online stores, so janky, pictures were all done with my phone, just terrible imagery, the copy, everything was just so bad. 

But I always use this story to share with anyone who's interested. Sometimes it doesn't always matter how we start, you just have to get started. And I'm really grateful that I wasn't a perfectionist, even though you're sometimes in these creative spaces. 

I work with lots of creatives. And it's almost like the idea of perfection is what we're all trying to pursue. But if we did that, then we'd never launch or put anything into the world. 

And so that is how we had to start. One, I didn't come from generational wealth so there was no massive amount of money there. We’re starting with very limited funds. Just really using the access income I would have at the time, which wasn’t a massive amount, but that was what’s being put into the business.

Really shortly thereafter, once we did start, I started to get questions that really relate to the brand that we are now. And that was both ingredients and our packaging, and why we weren't doing things differently.

I really did question myself, but I knew–even though in my heart I knew sustainability was super important to me–we couldn't start that way. It was just absolutely impossible for us to start that way. We had to sort of prove the concept with this private white label version first. 

And then once we proved that, then I was ready to take a risk and put more of my personal investment into the situation. And then also start to seek out if there would be investors interested in supporting us. 

Chase Clymer

Oh my god. There's so much in there that I want to touch on. I think the first is perfection being the enemy of progress. If you read any SaaS startup book, everyone’s always, “If you're not embarrassed by the first version of your product or website, you waited too long.” 

Jennifer Harper

Yeah. Yeah. There's like... Oh my goodness. There's one that I read. I can't remember the name of it. But it's definitely from a tech-based background. And I was like, “Okay, I get it. You really just have to start.” 

Chase Clymer

Oh, absolutely. 

And because you're so close to your idea and your product, and it doesn't matter how good or how many problems you solve for your hypothesis. Unless the customers care about it, it doesn't matter. 

And a lot of people still to this day. I peruse Reddit all the time. And in those forums, I see people, “I worked on my product for three years and I launched nothing.” And everyone's just like, “Well, did you validate it?” 

And so that's one thing that I really like to hammer home on this show. It's just like trying to find creative ways to make sure that other people care about the thing you are trying to build a business around. 

Jennifer Harper

Absolutely. 

Chase Clymer

So you found a white label partner to help do products, which I think is a great stopgap, like you said, to validate and get things out there before you could dive into these more core concepts that you wanted to do, especially around sustainability. 

Was there anything else that you guys did at the beginning to validate the business or even test the market and try to find traction just to make sure this was the right area to invest more money in?

Jennifer Harper

Yeah, we were really taking advantage of the glory days of social media and that really hyper level of engagement. We built this really solid community of, we call them Cheekbone Warriors now, but literally, those are our people. They helped us develop products. It's where we went to them for validation on the things that we were trying to work on and accomplish. 

And especially when we knew we were going to make this pivot, it was like a year of engagement, back and forth, both sides, surveys through building not only the social media space, but also our email list where I feel like you're really is really the only way to stay so closely connected to the customer now. 

But asking them what they think we should do and understanding that not even all of them understood sustainability in the path, but it was certainly something that they were craving. They really wanted to.

And what we've learned from those past years was that people really want just to trust the brand that they are using something and that is better for humans and the planet. They don't need to know all the education or details in the background because it's very convoluted and confusing. And they do just need to know that the brand that they're supporting is the one that has done that work for them. 

And that's a really big challenge because at first, sometimes a lot of us as brands, especially I call them like in this eco space, you really feel like you have to prove yourself and tell the story and sort of all of those like features, advantages and benefits and you're checking them off and how it relates to sustainability. 

But quite honestly, sustainability doesn't sell. It's an efficacious product that sells. And so even how we've marketed ourselves has had to change.

When I think about using that audience back in that time period, it was definitely, that's when we had to get into this sort of more educational tough questions and figure out how to market it. 

And that's where we realized, “Oh, we can't market sustainability because it's actually not going to sell the products. We just need to be that, but also have really effective, incredible color cosmetics products for people to use.”

It's so funny because at the end of the day, I think as humans, we're really all just so vain. We just want the product to work. And especially in beauty, we want it to do the thing that it says it's going to do. And no one honestly cares about the steps that you take to become a sustainable clean brand. They just want to know that you've done that work. 

And we are really proud that, you know, I could literally have a conversation with you for well over an hour about how we built our lab, how we work with scientists, not only from our own lab in our own facility at our headquarters, but also sustainability scientists to then prove all the sustainability reporting that we now do every single year. 

And as a small brand, that is a huge feat and a big challenge, but it's us just doing the work in the background because at the end of the day, actually no one cares about that stuff, but it's just who we are. And we always wanna know that we're doing things.

When we say this as Indigenous people, we always talk about doing things in a good way. And so we just want to know that that's what we're doing. 

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. And you are right. We could talk for well over an hour. I've already got four questions over here just from that.  

So I'll try to make them quick. I feel like we skipped a step. And you talked about launching to crickets. There wasn't really any sales on that first launch.

How did that change? How did you actually find customers that weren't your friends and family? 

Jennifer Harper

Well, the truth is, I would probably spend 4 to 6 hours a day on social media, just engaging with people. And obviously, the apps and the algorithm back then loved that I was that engaged. And we really grew quite rapidly, starting with 2,000 followers to where we are today.

But in those early years, I knew we had 100K in a very short period of time. And it was just constant engagement and me really reaching out to the people that I knew that would care about this brand. 

So, of course, first, that meant connecting with any Native American on the planet. We were connected. Any other Indigenous community, groups, people, organizations, brands–there's not many– made connections there, collaborations.

There's only one relatively larger, successful, Indigenous brand, it's called Manitobah Mukluks that had really quite a big audience. And back in those days, we could use really cheap ads and copy their audience. And I'm saying we, but this was just me in that corner of my basement by myself doing this, spending a ridiculous amount of time on social media. 

But I remember when I became a Facebook user in 2007. I remember back then in my sales career thinking, this is the future and I really knew that. So I really did before launching this brand, understand the power of social media. And once the brand was launched, I was using that tool. 

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. 

And it's funny, you said that this was back in 2016. And I was thinking about the start of our agency. And that's back when we did Facebook ads and stuff. And it was like, yeah, that was the Wild West back then. It was so much fun.

Jennifer Harper

It was so much fun. 

Chase Clymer

And there's a lot of money to be made. And a lot of people made a lot of money. And I think a lot of people, especially now, wish they spent more money. 

Jennifer Harper

Oh, I know. I bet you there's a lot of people that have some serious regrets. And it's completely different now. We live in a different world. The conglomerates are back. They now have the bazillions of dollars that Meta is requiring to run successful ads to be really successful in these spaces. And so it's incredible how the tables have flipped. 

And I'm just thinking we're in this time of transition. And so it's figuring out these new ways to garner that kind of engagement and attention, right?

Chase Clymer

Exactly. So you talked a lot about how you're messaging around sustainability and just messaging in general and what you were showing your audience changed over time and evolved. And you went back to... And I don't want to put words in your mouth, but this is how I heard it. The core thing is this product needs to solve their problem. Everything else just helps them make the decision to buy it.

Jennifer Harper

Correct.

Chase Clymer

So what would you... What advice would you give to entrepreneurs that are stuck on how to work on that messaging and how to format those offers for their audience? 

Jennifer Harper

For sure, take the time to have those brainstorming sessions with your team or outside support, whether it's consultants or agencies, to really think of how you can distill it. And it's critical. And because we're the ones in the work, I always say I am not the best person to probably do that all the time because I'm seeing it this way.

But I really need to understand how my customer is seeing it. And that is a real customer, not the person we maybe wish to be our customer, but who actually is the real customer. And they're the ones opening up their wallets and spending the money.Because sometimes we created, you know, avatar target customers. Are they always the right ones? No, they're the ones that we're hoping for and envisioning to be the right customer. 

But at the end of the day, the market's going to decide who they are for your brand and your product. And so you really have to stop and get silent and pay attention to that and seek outside support if you have a tough time with that because it's probably one of the most valuable dollars you will spend. 

Chase Clymer

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Chase Clymer

Yeah, you just gave away the answer there. I mean, you're on the same wavelength here. This is very fun asking questions where I think I know what you're going to say. Your customer will just tell you the answers and it's just… talk to them and ask them. 

Now, I can't have a conversation with you without talking about your time on Canada's version of Shark Tank, Dragon's Den. Actually, I don't think I've ever had anyone on the show that's been on Dragon's Den. So cool. 

How much of a difference is there? Or is it just a title change?

Jennifer Harper

I think it's just the title change. I'm pretty sure this is the... It originated in the UK. And then America just called it Shark Tank versus Dragon's Den. So it's exactly the same idea. Exactly the same idea. 

I just, I think all of us as Canadians would be like, “We'd love to be on Shark Tank!” because your audience is just so much bigger than ours here in Canada. Our population is 30 million. So it's the same as the state of California, right? So our audience is just not as big. 

And here's what's interesting and what I've learned now. Of course, every entrepreneur is like, “We want the biggest audience in front of us at all moments.” But what is really key is in these early days, not blowing up too quickly so that you can understand who you are as a brand, who you are as an entrepreneur, who wants your product, who doesn't. 

And that comes down to that, like really getting laser-focused on those things first. 

And so I guess being here and going on Shark Tank, sorry, Dragon’s Den in Canada first was a really great way to help us grow as a business and as a brand. And it was an incredible marketing opportunity we used to have just from our Ecommerce space. It was like a 50-50 split between the US audience and Canadian audience because we were always targeting both. 

But after Dragon’s Den, we then grew to like a 90% Canadian audience just because of obviously the market shift and having that national television platform. And we saw the residual effects of that experience well up until… 

I think we still get people from our zig pool, from our site saying they saw it on Dragon's Den. I'm like, that was from 2019. So it's still there, it still lives out in the internet and it's drawn a ton of people to our platform and it really helped us become this standout brand in Canada. 

And what I love about sharing our journey up here from Canada is when you really become sort of the top dog in your small community, and you understand your space and who you are and you have the time to do that. 

So maybe you are a local business and you're in a small town in the Midwest somewhere, like hone in on that space first, right? Or your state and just figure out who you are. And I think expansion has been a lot easier for us because we really know who we are. 

Chase Clymer

 That local connection is... There's a book by... I believe it's Jim Collins called Good to Great. And he profiled maybe like a dozen companies that had just really breakthrough growth. And one of those factors was they had a huge commitment to community involvement in some way, shape, or form.

And that's something that we strive to do at the agency by being involved with Columbus and Ohio in and of itself. And I know that you guys are obviously very, very well ingrained within your community, especially in the Indigenous community. 

But yeah, everyone out there, that's a little bit of a cheat sheet. Also, that book is just amazing. It's a great read. 

Jennifer Harper

I love that book. I read it many, many years ago. And it was truly inspiring and really gave you this deep understanding of what makes a company great. 

Chase Clymer

Exactly. 

Let's fast forward a bit to now. We're recording this. We've got Black Friday, Cyber Monday on the horizon. What is the strategy for Cheekbone Beauty in 2024? How are we going to approach this holiday sale season? What are we trying that's new? What is tried and true and you know that's going to work? 

Jennifer Harper

Yeah. So we do have... I think the model that we've used over and over again, and it's been really helpful for us, is obviously having promotions.

Every customer loves the idea of understanding that they're getting a deal or something that they get to take advantage of and they love that and they love feeling rewarded. And we obviously as brands love providing that for them. 

And then for us, product development is a big part of what we do. And so obviously, we launch new products every holiday season. And that will come into play, I think, at the beginning of November, which is also in the United States Native American Heritage Month. So we always try to make sure we're launching a product that is available for the beginning of the month as well. 

But then it is meant to play out for our entire holiday season. 

And that for us, we've been working on this one product for a year and a half. And when we're in our space, PD is so long because of formulations, many don't work. We always have tons of things in the background, which we are testing. 

And one way, especially in cosmetics and the beauty space in general, is when you're actually, we no longer use private or white labels, we do our own formulating in our lab. And so a lot of our formulations have to be in stability testing for a long time. 

And that stability testing is meant to mimic at least one year on a shelf. And so you can speed it up with things like stability ovens. However, the true test is actually if you're letting this new formulation sit on a shelf for a year somewhere and see what happens to it. 

You can do shorter time periods, but it's really just not the full effectiveness of what's going to happen to the formulation. And so for us, we have so many different products in play. 

But so the one that we're launching this year, we started working on a year and a half ago and it's, and it is ready to go. And it's proven formulation. 

So we're really excited, but that becomes a big part of what we do. We use storytelling, not only from our brand's perspective, but every product that we launch really has a big story around it. And it takes a lot of time to make sure that, again, we're telling the story in the right amount of bite-sized pieces that someone can understand and that it's not too overwhelming.

And so all of that has to go into position. But the whole method and model for Black Friday, Cyber Monday for us has always been the same. 

And when you're a sustainable brand, it's really interesting. You don't want to over push, “Buy this because it's a deal or a promotion.” And so we're really strategic in how we position ourselves during this big sale period as well. 

Chase Clymer

Yeah, absolutely. 

With the holidays around the corner, you mentioned rewarding your customers and making sure that they see value in purchasing at that time. Are you guys big on bundling? What types of deals seem to work in your industry? 

Jennifer Harper

Yeah, for sure. It's definitely about bundling where they feel like they're getting an exclusive deal. We actually use a lot of information that we're collecting just about our audience and what type of items they prefer to purchase from our site. And so we really create bundles based on what they actually are preferring to see. 

And so it's just really listening again, going back to that, listening to the customer, taking as much of the data and the information and the knowledge that you already have because of the platforms that you use and figuring out, “Okay, what do they really want?” 

And, you know, it would be false. I could never say we always get it right. But over the years, it's incredible to see how much better we are getting at this. 

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. And then if you're using modern platforms like Shopify, I know for a fact, shout out to Triple Whale. They will tell you what you should be bundling together just based upon your customer data. And I know there are a couple other apps out there that do similar stuff that will just kind of do the work for you.

If you want to get a little more nerdy, you can dump in your historical sales data and in any sort of AI and they'll tell you what your bundle should be as well. So there's some free advice out there for everybody going into Q4. 

Jen, this has been such an amazing conversation. 

Is there anything I didn't ask you about that you think would resonate with our audience? 

Jennifer Harper

Wow, I don't know. I feel like we've talked about everything. And I know it's only been a quick conversation, but I still feel like we've covered a lot.

We're just really proud of the brand we've built. We really feel like we are a brand that's doing business and doing good in the world at the same time. I love that we're a B Corp certified company. It really creates some certification and validation for all the work that we're doing. 

What being a B Corp means is that we now have a legal obligation to both humans and the planet before profits, which are tough conversations, usually in the investor space. And now that we do have investment in our company, they are a social impact investing firm, which is excellent because that aligns with our values. 

Chase Clymer

That's amazing. Now if I've listened to this and how passionate you've been talking about Cheekbone Beauty, and I want to learn more, potentially buy some products, where should I go? What should I do? 

Jennifer Harper

Yeah. So in the US, you can go to JCPenney and find us in the beauty section at JCPenney Beauty. And in Canada, we're in Sephora Canada, and also cheekbonebeauty.com. 

Chase Clymer

Awesome. Jen, thank you so much for coming on the show. 

Jennifer Harper

Thanks for having me.

Chase Clymer

We can't thank our guests enough for coming on the show and sharing their knowledge and journey with us. We've got a lot to think about and potentially add into our own business. You can find all the links in the show notes. 

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Until next time!