335 | Pivoting to Services to Scale With Your Team | with Lucy Jeffrey

Lucy Jeffrey

I'd say a lot of the founders we seem to work with don't really want to build their own team. They don't want to be people managers. They want to grow their business.  

Chase Clymer

Welcome to Honest Ecommerce, a podcast dedicated to cutting through the BS and finding actionable advice for online store owners. I'm your host, Chase Clymer. And I believe running a direct-to-consumer brand does not have to be complicated or a guessing game. 

On this podcast, we interview founders and experts who are putting in the work and creating  real results. 

I also share my own insights from running our top Shopify consultancy, Electric Eye. We cut the fluff in favor of facts to help you grow your Ecommerce business.

Let's get on with the show.

Chase Clymer

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Honest Ecommerce. Today, I'm welcoming to show a two-time founder based in the UK. She started her journey as the founder of Bare Kind. Lucy Jeffrey, welcome to the show. 

Lucy Jeffrey

Hi, Chase. Thank you so much for having me on.  

Chase Clymer

I'm excited to chat today. For those that are unfamiliar, can you quickly tell us what types of products you're bringing to market at Bare Kind? 

Lucy Jeffrey

Yeah, sure. So our main hero product is socks that save animals. So we sell bamboo socks.  And we donate 10% of the profits to save the animal on the sock linked with over 40 different conservation and rescue charities around the world now. 

Chase Clymer

That's amazing. Now, all right. Take me back in time. Did the idea to save animals come first or did the sock come first? What was going on? How did this happen?

Lucy Jeffrey

Actually, the idea to save animals came first. So socks weren't my first product. So I used to work for a bank. That was my full-time job. And I just wanted to dabble in starting something. And so at the time, my first product was actually reusable straws. So the kind of metal straws that you get. This was back in 2018. So I started with that as a product, dabbling in a few other things like recycled t-shirts, bags.  

But because of the metal straws, turtles became a bit of a mascot for us because we're about reducing single use plastic going into the ocean. There was a video going viral at the time of a turtle with a plastic straw stuck up his nose. And so they became a bit of a mascot and I wanted to donate back to the turtles. So that's where it came from. But there was still a bit of a tenuous link. There were no turtles on the straw itself. So I was like, you know what, I'll just do like a limited edition run of a fun product with turtles on. And that happened to be socks. 

But my customers loved them and asked me, I wanted to see other animals. I like this idea. I want to donate to bees and penguins, etc. So I then had a bit of a follow on one of the next few designs. And then fast forward, that was like six, seven years ago now. We've got like 100 different designs and the straws are long gone. That was a product that just disappeared after a while. And we've doubled down in the socks and that's the main focus of the business.

Chase Clymer

Now back when you were selling straws, was Bare Kind still the brand? 

Lucy Jeffrey

It was. Yeah. It's interesting. We've kept that name and that came from really it's bare as in B-A-R-E. It was like a back to nature vibe and kind with the kindness behind it. So we've kept that vibe as we've gone through. I guess it started as a sustainability based brand and we've kept those values, which are my own core values as we've gone through.

So that's where the brand name has stayed the same. And actually at the time, I remember when I was doing the brand, all the branding right at the start, I wanted a name that was like, didn't tie me to a particular product. I just wanted a name,  which is funny that I thought of that like back then. But ultimately, yeah, we're basically Bare Kind socks now. That's what we should probably rebrand it to, but we've just kept it as it is for now.  

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. All right. And I want to talk more about that pivot and how you heard your customers and realized that was worth doubling down on. But before that, the straw was the first product.  How did you go about launching this business? How did you go about getting customers that weren't your friends and family? 

Lucy Jeffrey

Yeah. So the straw started as a dropshipping model. So I felt like it was a very easy way to market that I was just testing it. And again, yeah, as you said, it was friends and family that were kind of my first customers. And then, do you know what? I don't even know where the first customer would have come from because probably Instagram, because I think that's the only channel I had. I wasn't spending any money on paid marketing. And then suddenly I got a random person to buy straws. Possibly I got some good SEO back in the day because like the metal straw phenomenon wasn't like a massive thing. And I was just kind of riding the early waves of that.

And I got my first customer who I didn't know who it was. And I was like, wow, okay, this is good. And then I got a couple more. And then honestly, it was early as that, I was like, oh, there is some traction here. And then I decided, right, I'm going to stop dropshipping because I really hated it because it would take 40 days for the order to arrive. It was all wrapped in plastic, which is literally the opposite of what I'm trying to do with the brand. So I went straight to the source and ordered my own inventory. I got it branded with the logo.

Then I was able to do my own fulfillment just from home. So it was still tiny at that point, but that's where I started and got a little bit of traction using dropshipping all through Shopify. That's where I started. That's what we still use now. And then, yeah, that's where it grew from. And it was social media really in those early days where I was probably boosting posts. I probably wasn't even doing a proper paid ad strategy. I'd have just been like, yeah, I'll put five pounds behind this post. It was very rudimental at that point. 

Chase Clymer

As you were scaling the paid side of things, a number that you were scared to press submit on, you're like, we can't spend this much a day. 

Lucy Jeffrey

No. Do you know what? I think I ended up using a freelancer. So before I got to the point where I was thinking, I'm spending too much on the particular boosted post. The max I probably got to was like 100 pounds. So we had a decent enough Christmas. I remember that being the first time we were like, we're actually making  decent orders, which should have been maybe max 10 a day, nothing crazy. 

Then I hired a freelancer. I can't remember where I found him, but maybe a friend of a friend or someone. He was known on the network and  he helped us out a bit. He might have even done some basically pro bono work for us to start with, and then we ended up working with him full-time. That would have been when we started actually putting the budget behind it on a monthly basis would have been in the hundreds of pounds per month rather than thousands. We were super, super tiny. It wasn't until 2020, obviously a big year for everyone, I'd actually closed the business down for a bit because my mom was doing my shipping. I was like, right, you can't leave the house, so we'll shut it down for a bit. Had a load of stock. This was stocks at this point and I didn't know what to do with the business. 

I didn't know whether to shut it down or what to do. I think that the whole world is in crisis. I was like, do I stay at my job? Do I quit my job? I've got no idea what to do. I took out a loan because the UK was doing COVID loans at that point. It was 3,000 pounds and I put all of it into paid marketing on Facebook. And we sold out of all of our stock before the end of November. 

I remember in October I made 5,000 pounds revenue. And for me at that point, I was like, wow, this seems like a lot.  And so I quit my job, which seems crazy because I'd actually run out of stock. I had no stock during December, which is now our biggest month of all. So  actually maybe kind of crazy, but yeah, I quit my job. So by the time 2021 came around, I was full time on the business.

We were consistently spending on ads and growing the business. But yeah, we're also very seasonal. So going into Christmas is great for us. But we're very quiet. Q1 to Q3. So also a weird time to quit my job. But  it was the right decision at the time. And I think after having COVID, it pushed me into that direction because I was like, literally anything could happen. Look at the world right now. might as well roll the dice at least once. 

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. All right. Let's talk about how you made the decision to pivot. You started with the straws and then the customers  really liked the socks. Now, was it super obvious? Or did you almost miss that signal? Walk us through that. I'm sure there are a listener or two out there that are almost at that same crossroads right now. 

Lucy Jeffrey

Yeah. I think it was fairly obvious. The verbatim around the socks was much stronger than the straws. And actually, if you analyze what was happening with the straws, there wasn't anything particularly unique about them. They were already all over Amazon.  We started seeing them in shops everywhere, whether it's like  major supermarkets or like Urban Outfitters was one I specifically remember. That's a clothing store here that I remember seeing like the straws in Urban Outfitters thinking, they're identical to mine, just a different logo.

Like it could even be the same manufacturer. There is nothing unique about these. I think it was being very honest with the fact that did that product really have legs to be the product that I put it this way, I didn't quit my job for the straws, I quit my job for the socks because I just thought there's something more unique about these. There's a bit more story behind it. I felt like I could build a brand behind it. But yes, the numbers were also telling us that as well. The straws were never strong enough on their own.

And so we don't think I, yeah, I definitely didn't, after I quit my job, I definitely didn't do any reorders of the straws. We were just kind of selling them through. And it actually got to the point where we couldn't even like to give them away. We really needed to, like we dropped the price on them. And then it just got to the point where we were just putting them in for free in order just to kind of clear through the stock because they're just, we've been sitting on them for so long. And then we were building a completely different brand.

Chase Clymer

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Chase Clymer

I think that just recognizing that and pivoting is something that a lot of entrepreneurs need to know. When people are asking for things and you're ignoring that signal, you really have to take a step back. I think a lot of people get really invested in their first product or first idea when it's  maybe not the most profitable or the best business model. Like you said, the straws got super commoditized pretty quickly. And while I think if there's another competitor in the market with you, if everyone's selling the exact same thing, and it's hard to differentiate,

a commoditized product like that, it's really an uphill battle. And you could do a lot less work and have way greater results. 

Lucy Jeffrey

Absolutely. Yeah. And don't get me wrong, it's still hard and very competitive in the sock industry. Obviously, there's lots of different sock brands. We do have the uniqueness around the donation to charity model. And I think our brand is very strong. People want to support us. 

A big level up that we found in the brand is when I moved into a more like  front facing role. So I was obviously always the founder, but I stayed behind the scenes quite a lot. And as soon as I became more the face of the brand, people bought into that a lot more  and supported us because they wanted to support me.

And especially during COVID, a lot of people wanted to support independent businesses. Also shopping online was the only way so that we kind of rode that wave as well. But I think it's really important. The other thing I'd suggest to people, especially in those early days, is be really close on your numbers. I was basically doing a profit and loss like every single day, like in my Excel, because I was just really trying to understand the numbers and like, you know, our cost of goods and our fulfillment costs and like every single, like it was a nasty spreadsheet that I could never have kept up long term because it wasn't like sustainable because there was so much work. 

But in those early days, it was really helpful for me to see on a daily basis, like exactly what was happening in our business. We couldn't do it now because there's just too many like transactions going on. But that's ultimately what our accountants and bookkeepers then need to provide for us more on a monthly and quarterly basis. But at that point, I was doing it daily and that allowed me to make really easy decisions.

Chase Clymer

Yeah. I mean, two pieces of gold advice there. One being, people want to buy from people, not from faceless entities. I can go back to almost every episode on this thing. It comes up and it's like, yeah, when people want to hear from me, things move the needle a bit. Either an email or a video or some sort of social post that comes out from the founder, it works. That's fantastic. 

Now, you mentioned something a little bit ago that I want to go back to, which is that you're a heavily Q4 brand, just socks and gifting. And it plays in with your brand.  But you know a strategy to help flatten that curve that you're now  truly one of the subject matter experts in that space. Talk to me a bit more about that strategy. 

Lucy Jeffrey

Yeah. So to give some context, about 70% of our revenue comes in Q4. So when we're in Q4, it's amazing. It's a good time. And then we have to really be careful on cash flow through the rest of the year because we come out of Q4. One, we have a VAT return coming up for Q4. So 20% of our revenue is going to come out in the next quarter, plus all of our fulfillment costs. And  we then have to restock after Christmas. And then basically, our cash balance just goes down and down and down until it starts hitting Christmas again. So it's quite a tricky one to manage being a product-based business because we have inventory to buy.

But a massive player came into the UK market in 2021 called Faire, which is like a B2B marketplace basically for independent brands like me selling to independent retailers. They were already in America, but they came into the UK and we were an early adopter of the platform and we did really, really well through it. So we had a massive amount of growth in those early days. And it's really helped flatten out that cash flow through the year so we can be a bit more sustainable.

Because these retailers are, it's still a gifting product with the socks, but because these retailers have got kind of consistent footfall when it's quite an easy purchase, like it's a nice pair of socks, you know, it's 10 pounds a pair. So I think they do quite well consistently, whereas for us, it's just all of our B2C traffic during Q4.  So we grew really quickly on that platform. And it's really helped us to have a more sustainable cash flow throughout the year.  And yeah, as you said, as a result, we started sharing more.

Well, actually the reason we started sharing videos about Faire online is because we were trying to get more retailers to purchase our socks. So the actual reason for sharing videos was for me to come on camera to build trust with new retailers and explain what Faire is, because they had never heard of it at this point. We were coming in saying, hey,  you're new to us, we're a new brand, here's some new products that we're telling you you should buy through a platform that you've never heard of.

Here's some offers and incentives and all of this. And a lot of them were like, I just don't understand what's going on. How do I use this? Retailers can be a bit traditional in that vein. They like the trade shows and buying directly from the brand. So we were coming on camera talking about Faire and explaining what it was. And as a result, we started getting a lot of other brands coming to us saying, wow, you're doing really well on Faire. Can you tell how? Like, can you teach us that? So then we started doing explainer videos.

Then that's grown off and into a complete spin-off. And now it's a completely separate business that we're growing alongside Bare Kind because Bare Kind is still doing well on Faire. So we're growing that. But we're also sharing advice online for people that want to do what we've done, basically. 

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. No. It's again, it goes back to people who will start asking you for things and those opportunities will come your way if it resonates with the market. Faire was new, especially in the UK and people. Business Advice 101. Pay someone that's done it before to help you do it. It's the best shortcut in the world. 

Lucy Jeffrey

Yeah, exactly. And we've really found that. They started asking us for it. They were telling us what they wanted. And that's when we again, it's this whole thing of pivoting. We're still a very seasonal brand. And we saw this as an opportunity. So we started off selling templates and things to help brands on Faire, to things like SEO optimization, that kind of thing. 

So we started automating processes by selling templates. So we were doing digital products. Then we were kind of consulting a bit. But now we've got basically a full service agency. So we've got clients who are product brands, just like Bare Kind, that come to us and we run their fair account for them on a monthly basis. And as a product business owner, looking at a service business, I'm like, wow, look at all that juicy profit.

A service business and obviously it's a lot of time and work. But we'd already built a team, like we have an amazing team behind Bare Kind that was too big and too expensive most of the year until we get into Christmas. So the pivot here was about how we can sustain our team and keep this going because we think we're onto something. And basically we've kind of outsourced our team to help on other brands as well as Bare Kind. So Bare Kind's basically become a client of ours that likes plugs in. So it was just another way to flatten that revenue curve. So we could keep selling socks  and then wait for Christmas basically. 

Chase Clymer

No, absolutely. But it's ingenious. You developed that IP internally for the brand. You saw the value there. There were founders of YouTube videos saying, take my money and help me please. 

Lucy Jeffrey

Yeah. 

Chase Clymer

And just being open to that idea and pivoting again and building us almost an entirely separate business, as you said. Not even something in tandem. To run that for you, that's amazing. I think a lot of founders, their first business isn't the business that makes the mark. 

There's something they learn in that business or they identify a gap in the market. And all those things that you learn as an entrepreneur and building a business are transferable.Your first idea, maybe not the best idea, but the knowledge is  so powerful. You don't need to go to college if you want an MBA. Just start a business.

Lucy Jeffrey

Absolutely, yeah. And we're definitely seeing that because the clients that we take on board,  a lot of them are just us, but like five years ago, or they're just very, very overwhelmed founders. I don't feel like they don't have the time to go after various opportunities, whereas, I run the business with my husband now, and we have done for the last two or three years, and we have got a really strong team that we've built. And he in particular is very good at people management. So we've got this awesome little team that we're building.

I'd say a lot of the founders we seem to work with don't really want to build their own team. They don't want to be people managers. They want to grow their business. So we're basically saying, let us do the people management side of it for you. And so the beauty of this model is they come to us because of Faire, because they've Googled how to use Faire and how to do better. They find us on YouTube.  And then  they trust us because we're on camera all the time talking about how we've done it for our own business. So we're not salespeople.

We're business owners. So they come to us and then a lot of the clients end up doing other activities with us, whether it's their Shopify website or paid ads,  because  we're already doing it for our own business. So we say, sure, if you need  design help, we have a designer already in our team. So it's a really cool model. 

I'm very excited about it. We are in the early days of it. We're about a year in. But it's very exciting. 

Chase Clymer

That's amazing, Lucy. Now, I do want to pivot back to the socks a bit. If I'm listening to this show, and I'm like, you know what, I have cold feet, and I like animals, where should I go to pick up a pair? 

Lucy Jeffrey

Yeah. So, barekind.co.uk is where you should go. That's our own website. And as I said, we're on Faire. So if you've got a shop and you think it's something you'd like to stock, we sell through that predominantly. So yeah, absolutely. We're actually doing our Christmas order right now. Putting in all the different designs and animals that we're going to have coming  this year. So we've got a lot of new ones coming, which is exciting. 

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. And then if I am curious to learn more about well, one, plug the YouTube channel here and then two, plug the Faire Wholesale Agency. 

Lucy Jeffrey

Yeah, absolutely. So it's all called Candid Founders. That's where we started. And the reason behind that is because it's literally just us trying to be as honest  as founders as possible. So if you go to Candid Founders on YouTube, that's where you'll have, honestly, we've definitely got the biggest database of Faire guidance videos online now, anywhere, because we're so early to it.  And we do know what we're talking about. 

So if you need advice, or if you're thinking about Faire, just start with YouTube. There's so much advice on there. And then you can find us at CandidFounders.com. You can book a discovery call with us. You speak directly with us, or drop us an email at hello at CandidFounders.com.

Yeah, we work with brands all over the place. Actually, most of our clients are based in America as well because Faire is so big out there. So yeah, please do get in touch if you need some help. 

Chase Clymer

Awesome. Lucy, thank you so much for coming on the show today. 

Lucy Jeffrey

Thank you for having me.  

Chase Clymer

We can't thank our guests enough for coming on the show and sharing their knowledge and journey with us. We've got a lot to think about and potentially add into our own business. You can find all the links in the show notes. 

You can subscribe to the newsletter at https://honestecommerce.com/ to get each episode delivered right to your inbox. 

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Lastly, if you're a store owner looking for an amazing partner to help get your Shopify store to the next level, reach out to Electric Eye at electriceye.io/connect.

Until next time!