342 | Building Community Before Launching Products | with Hannah Ruhamah Crum

Hannah Ruhamah Crum is the Founder of Kombucha Kamp, the leading education platform and Ecommerce brand for homebrewed kombucha. She’s also the co-author of The Big Book of Kombucha and the cofounder and former president of Kombucha Brewers International, where she’s helped shape industry standards for fermentation and transparency.

Before launching Kombucha Kamp, Hannah was a language teacher and aspiring actress who stumbled into kombucha at a raw food restaurant in San Francisco. A single sip turned into a full-blown obsession, leading her to teach local brewing classes out of her apartment, blog about the gut microbiome, and ship SCOBYs from her kitchen table before launching a full Ecommerce operation.

Hannah shares how she followed inbound demand signals to grow from DIY educator to industry leader, why homemade kombucha is different from store-bought, and how she scaled without outside capital. She also unpacks how COVID reshaped her business overnight, why she walked away from a quarter-million-dollar facility, and what she's learned about managing people without formal training.

Whether she’s explaining what it means to be a “bacteria farmer” or how her belief in gut health intersects with spiritual wellness, Hannah offers a candid look at what it takes to build a mission-driven CPG brand from scratch.

In This Conversation We Discuss:

• [00:40] Intro
• [01:15] Selling starter kits not just products
• [02:34] Discovering a product by total accident
• [04:56] Blogging to fix misinformation online
• [06:16] Podcasting early to build brand authority
• [09:05] Reclaiming gut health through real food
• [10:44] Episode Sponsors: Electric Eye, Heatmap, Zamp
• [14:42] Protecting tradition through policy advocacy
• [18:51] Rebuilding ops with a lighter footprint
• [21:30] Outsourcing production for better margins
• [23:02] Building loyalty with rewards that convert

Resources:

• Subscribe to Honest Ecommerce on Youtube
• Providing free information and education about Kombucha kombuchakamp.com
• Follow Hannah Ruhamah Crum linkedin.com/in/hannahcrumla 
• Schedule an intro call with one of our experts electriceye.io/connect
• Clear, real-time data built for ecommerce optimization heatmap.com/honest 
• Fully managed sales tax solution for Ecommerce brands zamp.com/honest 
  

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Transcript

Hannah Ruhamah Crum

Can I create a place with my niche audience who already love these types of foods to then come and procure them from other vendors?  

Chase Clymer

Welcome to Honest Ecommerce, a podcast dedicated to cutting through the BS and finding actionable advice for online store owners. I'm your host, Chase Clymer. And I believe running a direct-to-consumer brand does not have to be complicated or a guessing game. 

On this podcast, we interview founders and experts who are putting in the work and creating  real results. 

I also share my own insights from running our top Shopify consultancy, Electric Eye. We cut the fluff in favor of facts to help you grow your Ecommerce business.

Let's get on with the show.

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Honest Ecommerce. Today, we've got a very awesome episode. You know how excited I get about niche communities and niche products, niche industries. I don't know if we could get more specific than what Hannah has been doing over there. She serves the global community as the founder of Kombucha Kamp. 

She's a co-author of an award-winning book, The Big Book of Kombucha. She's a co-founder and former president of Kombucha Brewers International. She knows a lot about Kombucha. Hannah, welcome to the show. 

Hannah Ruhamah Crum

Thanks, Chase. Great to be here.  

Chase Clymer

Oh, I'm excited to chat. So I guess, first and foremost, kombuchakamp.com is the website.

Hannah Ruhamah Crum

Kombucha Kamp with a K. Camp with a K. 

Chase Clymer

Camp with a K. Yes. Kombucha Kamp with a K is the website. I guess these days, what is going on on the website? What is the content? What are the products? Just to let people know where we're at now. 

Hannah Ruhamah Crum

Yeah, sure. So Kombucha Kamp, we are bacteria farmers. We sell kits and cultures so you can make your own fermented drinks at home. We work specifically with four cultures. Kombucha, which is called a SCOBY. That's an acronym that stands for Symbiotic Culture Bacteria and Yeast.  

We also have its raw honey cousin, Jun, or June, which you can also buy commercially. It's just got a lighter profile, a little more sparkly, and of course it's made with raw honey. Then we have  milk kefir or kefir, which is a dairy ferment that you inoculate into milk and it turns into this really rich drinkable yogurt, super creamy berry dynamic for gut health. And then we also have water kefir, which is  a term of convenience. It's also called tibicose or CBs. It's these cute little crystals that you put in a sugar water and they turn it into a light bubbly refreshing drink. 

Chase Clymer

That's amazing. Now, you and I connected before on this. So I know the answer. So I'm not trying to lead you to. I don't want the same answers. But I guess first and foremost, just take us back in time. I don't think you ever set out to start an Ecommerce business. What was the first iteration of this  path that led to Kombucha Kamp? 

Hannah Ruhamah Crum

So first of all, I had never heard of Kombucha. This is the early 2000s. I'm living in LA. I'm pursuing acting. I teach foreign languages because I speak Mandarin, Chinese and Spanish. So I've got little odd jobs and this and that. Well, I'm going up to San Francisco to visit a friend from college. We went to a premier raw food restaurant, Cafe Gratitude, many of you may have heard of it.  

And he also happens to be brewing kombucha, which I've never heard of. It's this jar, it's got all this weird gooey stuff in there and he goes, that's the kombucha. I'm like, okay, well that's weird, but intriguing. So when I come back to Los Angeles, of course, all the whole food shelves are stocked with tons of kombucha. I just had never seen it before. And I bought my first bottle, I cracked it open, I had my first sip. Have you ever tried kombucha, Chase?  

Chase Clymer

I haven't, but my wife loves it. 

Hannah Ruhamah Crum

You gotta borrow a sip one time. But in any case, for a lot of people that first sip can be a little overwhelming and intense because kombucha is an acidic acid ferment like vinegar. Now I was the girl sneaking the pickle juice out of the pickle jar. So when I had that first sip, I was like, oh, and the heavens opened and the angels were singing and I just fell in love with this product. So much so I started buying it all the time. My thirst outgrew my budget.

So I knew I had to learn all about it. I went to the library. I checked out every single book I could find on it. And I just, it inspired me to teach a class out of my home called Kombucha Kamp,  Camp of the K, because I'm cute and clever. I'm a little word nerd over here. And that class was literally just teaching people how to make kombucha. And it started out as a donation, which didn't last very long, because you find out many people aren't willing to donate, even though you spent time and energy helping them. It's an important part of the story because it's the people and what they want that then leads to this becoming not just a little side hobby that is a passion of mine, but in fact, my life's career. 

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. So first is the Kombucha Kamp in-house, in-person. And it's a paid thing. When does it go online? 

Hannah Ruhamah Crum

It's so funny how all this starts because it's all sort of like with the birth of the internet and how it ends up being used for Ecommerce. So I started blogging about Kombucha in 07, just a blog spot. I love it so much. I look online, there's a ton of misinformation about it. There's two women in Iowa who allegedly died, but of course they test the Kombucha, there's nothing wrong with it, but still this stupid web page exists and people get so worried about it. So things like this. 

So I really want to rectify that because my experience with Kombucha is life-giving. The old names for it are tea of long life, tea of longevity, and I'm experiencing that. And so I want more people to know about it. So I'm just blogging about it. And then people are reaching out and they go, hey, do you have a SCOBY? This or that? Oh, okay, sure. I'll send you one of mine. 

But this demand starts to gear up and people start asking for cultures on a more regular basis. And it's like, oh, well, maybe I could sell these. So I started a very small operation in my home. I also bagged some tea. I make my own tea blend, which is still incredibly popular today. And it just organically starts to unfold based on the interest and response from people reaching out. 

Chase Clymer

Back then, it wasn't even in the Ecommerce store at the start. 

Hannah Ruhamah Crum

No. Those were PayPal buttons. So then you know how there was eHow, there were all these how-to as YouTube started to become popular. And they wanted to produce all this content, teaching people how to do things. And as a producer, I'm here in Los Angeles of a web series that reached out and said, hey, we want to put you on a web series. And that series still exists today. You can find it on YouTube. 

You can find it on my website, but it is like the original Kombucha Kamp in my tiny little guest house in LA with my signature apron on. And so that starts also to get the word out with the videos. And I'm sure many people have learned from those videos, but they weren't monetized for me. I mean, maybe I got, you know, 300 bucks or something for teaching that, but it really is this time capsule of where I started.

But then, part of what I did is because I was so passionate about kombucha myself, I wanted to connect with everybody else who was passionate too. So anytime I heard about a brand or I saw something online, I would immediately reach out. I started podcasting before it was really even a word or a term. And I would interview different people and just like to find out why they were into kombucha? Tell your story. And so I collected the brands of every kombucha I could find on my website. 

And this plays into how I ended up becoming the co-founder and president of the trade association and how I've helped so many commercial producers along the way. But it really was this very organic evolution. But what happened in 2010, so my husband and I, he started to see, hey, maybe there's a real opportunity here. He was in between things. He has a background in film and video production and different things. So he helped create a series of videos for the business. He also saw there was a great opportunity for us to start an online store. And that's what we did in 2010 as we launched.

No time too soon because in 2010 is also the year that inspectors came into Whole Foods, found that there may be alcohol above the legal limit in some kombuchas and there was a withdrawal that happened. It was a big splash in our industry. And I'd already reached out to GT Dave prior to then he's the guy who founded Synergy Kombucha, which is the brand founded in 95. He literally started the whole commercial industry.

And we were the only people he'd grant interviews to who he talked about because he knew we understood that even though kombucha can sometimes have trace amounts of alcohol that go above the legal limit, it's not an intoxicating beverage. It's not something you're going to drink. You're not going to sit down and slam six kombuchas and get wasted or anything like that. And so we're in this like weird spot, but it really helped to launch the store because all of a sudden

As they say, there's no such thing as bad press. People are like, I can't get my kombucha. I've got to make my own. So it really became a great catalyst to launching our Ecommerce business forward. 

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. So just to recap, you go to San Francisco, try kombucha for the first time, realize it's great, start learning all about it, realize you don't want to spend money on it, start making your own. People start asking you for cultures  above and beyond the educational component that's there on the website. And then they ask you to start selling other people's kombuchas. And this thing just keeps snowballing and snowballing. 

Hannah Ruhamah Crum

Exactly right. I feel like I speak for the microbes. They have chosen me. I don't know how they knew I would be their vocal, their spokesperson in the world. But kombucha is an ancient beverage. Fermentation is ancient. And it's really here now, I think, because we're at an inflection point in history where we're seeing how important it is that what we put in our bodies impacts our health.  

Having been through COVID those last several years, the kind of shifts in the landscape of everything about what we're talking about, the Make America Healthy Again movement, the Getting the Dyes, you know, I've been part of a real food movement for a long time. I've been an advocate of raw milk and nutrient dense foods and, you know, really a sort of traditional steeped in tradition type of thought process in life.

And fermentation is part of that, but I truly think there's a huge gift in it because it's our bacteriological heritage. So while we might've lost some of that along the way with antibiotics, with C-sections, with all the different ways in which we're exposed to toxins and that can kill off our natural biome, we have these whole host of buddies who are here to help re-inoculate us and make us feel good and give us back part of what we've lost.

Chase Clymer

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Chase Clymer

Now, with the growth of the business through the 2010s up to COVID, were there any other major shifts with the Ecommerce side of the business?

Hannah Ruhamah Crum

Absolutely. You know, here's the thing. When we first launched, we were the low cost upstart. So there were already a couple of commercial sites out there and they were selling their SCOBY for about $40 a SCOBY. We came in at $25. So this was my husband's brilliant idea. We're to be the low cost upstart and it really worked. And now we're at 28.88 is our culture. We didn't raise our price too much over these, you know, last 15 years, but we are now expensive compared to most other places. 

So it's interesting to see how that shifted. The other thing that happened along the way is our book. When our book, The Big Book of Kombucha came out in 2016, that was when our sales peaked. At that point, I was confident that our sales were always going to be on an up trajectory and my husband was trying to warn me and I was like, no, no, really, this is everyone's going to know about it. There's so many people who still don't know. And once they know, of course they'll be buying their supplies from Kombucha Kamp. But of course my husband being more sensible than I could see that that was not necessarily the case. 

Now on top of this, we had started the trade association. So not only are we running a business out of our home, we are also running a trade association where I worked as a volunteer for five years and then finally in a paid capacity for the last five years. But what we were navigating is what I talked about earlier, this whole issue around alcohol. So first it created a total chill in the commercial industry. It created a sense that nobody wanted to talk to each other. There was a lot of fear.

There's a lot of worry that we're gonna get taken down by the federal government and things like this. Thankfully, that's not what happened and we were able to create some collaboration, but I spent a decade creating a code of practice that outlines the various ways to make kombucha, the processing steps and whatnot. And that's to enshrine traditional kombucha because innovation is gonna innovate and they're like, oh, let me put some acids with some bubbly water, oh, kombucha, right? 

But it doesn't have the same health benefits or reputation if it isn't made in that traditional format. We initiated the Kombucha Act, which was intended to raise that taxation threshold so that small producers wouldn't have to live under the fear of having to update their process or am I going to have to shut down my whole business because they're going to find it's at 0.6% and the legal limit's 0.5, right?

I mean, we're talking about really slight fractions here and it creates a lot of stress for people. So we've been doing a lot of work. We did a lot of work with that. Well, that took a lot of my time away from the business. So while it sort of was on autopilot for a period of time, it eventually started to break down because as we know, the internet doesn't stop moving. And what used to work for SEO changed over time. I mean, we even had espionage. Somebody tagged our site with, they spammed us with all these links for organic cotton to drive to our town on the internet for kombucha. 

So, in this world, there's all kinds of weird stuff that can happen, that you have to constantly be aware of. And thankfully my husband was that person until he ended up being physically injured during COVID. He can no longer be in the business. It all fell on my lap while I was still managing two things and it resulted in that last year I had to leave my facility, it felt really painful, right? 

Because here I had invested a quarter million dollars into building up this production facility to make it perfect for brewing our cultures. It was probably larger than we needed, but it also served its purpose. And we created starter liquid and scobies for many commercial brands that allowed us to build that facility. So we've been riding the waves is what I'm saying. We're riding the waves. So kombucha has been popular and then it comes down because then you have things like functional beverages, which are a bunch of inulin and metamucil, if you will, in a soda. And they claim that's just as good for you as kombucha when it is not. It's not the same thing at all. 

Chase Clymer

To just pare it back to I heard about the business, during COVID, a lot more responsibilities fell on your lap. And you were not only doing. You were running Kombucha Kamp, but you were also running the association and doing some consulting and. Unfortunately, your husband couldn't help. So now you have all these things. And you had to take a look at things and pivot away from producing the products yourself. And so now you've gone back to partnering with folks on those products. 

Hannah Ruhamah Crum

Exactly right. So here's the reality. I never anticipated when I started blogging about kombucha that I'd end up a bacteria farmer or a manufacturer, having a warehouse and employees and all the things that go with that. And I have to admit, maybe I'm not the best boss. 

You know, I never went to business school. I didn't have any training. I don't know that any of that even helps you be a good boss. But, you know, I learned a lot over the years in terms of managing people and how to do that. And the thing I think that as an entrepreneur, and maybe many entrepreneurs already have learned this lesson so far is like there's and I hadn't as well, people are just as hardworking and industrious and clever as I am. And of course, that's not the reality. 

If that were true, they'd have their own business. And so you fall into that whole, wish I could clone myself kind of situation, but of course you can't. And if you could afford someone who was at your level, you wouldn't still be a small business. So all of those sort of normal things that came along with it really created a lot of stress and drama because not only was I running a trade association, I was planning our annual conference. Now all of a sudden we're in a global crisis and nobody knows what to do.

All the terrain is shifting. It was a lot of, it's been a series of dominoes of just sort of really being forced to re-examine the priorities and how do we continue this forward with a smaller footprint, with a lighter presence in certain places because that's going to allow us to keep our doors open. So like you brought up, Chase, we shifted back to more of a dropshipping model. It was a model we used early on when we were working out of our home because of course, we didn't have any warehouse space. 

And so that model has been really great. And it's allowed us to work with new partners and old partners. And also what I realized is, now there's a lot more bacteria farmers thanks to all the work we've done. And in fact, there are some quality people we can partner with to help keep the Kombucha Kamp bacteria lines moving forward. 

Chase Clymer

Yeah, that's amazing. I think what stood out to me about you and the business when we first chatted during the pre-interview was just  the resiliency and  just being like, okay, we'll roll with this punch. We're going to pivot. And I think that's what I wanted to highlight for people out there is you understood that you needed to focus on what you were best at and allow other people to do what they were best at. And I think using Copackers and the dropshipping model is an amazing way to run a business and build a business. If you're good at the content and the connections and the partnerships, let other people be good at those other things. Just because of the economy of scale, for you to produce that product yourself, the margins weren't there versus someone producing it for you that's also producing for, let's say, a dozen other farms. 

Hannah Ruhamah Crum

Exactly. I mean, at first, it was like spinning straw out of gold, honestly. The kombucha SCOBY girls make tea and you put a SCOBY in it and then it grows. So it really felt a little rumple still skinny. So at some point I suppose  the jig had to be up, but it is resilient. 

And in fact, that investment we made into a space that we rented, right? We didn't own that space, which turned out to be a benefit because when I had to leave, even though I signed into a lease, which as you landlords are like never going to let you out of, I was able to sublease it at a profit. So now every month I'm earning money on that, which is great because it's helping to pay down some of the debts I accumulated during those last few years. 

Chase Clymer

That's amazing. Now looking towards the future, is there anything on the horizon that you're looking to do with Kombucha Kamp or the Ecommerce side of the business? 

Hannah Ruhamah Crum

Oh my gosh, I've got ideas galore. And thankfully, I have a really great team. Right now we're in a site redo. We're simplifying. I'm someone who loves details and I have overcomplicated things. So I have so many options and choices. So we're really working on streamlining that information, putting more of the information behind a paywall. It really was our philosophy at first to give away as much information for free. 

That was part of some of those early internet, those attitudes behind driving content and long form content and how do you get noticed with SEO and things like that. Now that so much of the content is out there, starting to put some of that more proprietary stuff or more in depth stuff behind a paywall. 

We have a rewards program. You can earn points that you can spend in the store. So a loyalty program, which we've seen a lot of other places pop up with. And then looking towards the future, I'm working on another book, which is about fermentation as a whole and how to incorporate it in your daily life. So not just how to do this one ferment, but rather how do I use fermented foods in my life and receive the most benefit out of it in addition to recipes, of course. And then finally, I'm looking to create a marketplace.

Right? What I'm great at is connections. What I know are tons of people who make high quality fermented foods and they're because of COVID is starting to ship them all over the world. Well, how can I create a place with my niche audience who already love these types of foods to then come and procure them from other vendors? Because when you're into craft food, yes, you make them and you have the recipes and all that, but you also love to try other people's because it's that enjoyment. It's the contrast.

It’s the comparison, it's the inspiration you get out of that kind of lifestyle. So we're excited to put that together, not launched yet, but we're hoping to have that. And in the past, we had shipped Kombucha with dropshippers before and it just kind of fizzled out because it wasn't really a thing then. And now it's able to come back. So we're always thinking of the future. Our ideas just aren't always ready to land yet. But the good news is they're there and we can launch them when the tools become available because of how quickly things are moving technology-wise. 

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. Hannah, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Now, if I'm listening to this and I do enjoy kombucha, where should I go? What should I do? 

Hannah Ruhamah Crum

Kombucha Kamp. Camp with a K because we're cute and clever over here.  We're at all the socials at Kombucha Kamp. Even if you Google kombucha, Hannah, or The Big Book of Kombucha, it's going to come up. I'm all over the place. Been doing this for, oh my gosh. 20 years since it started out in my home. If it's got to do with kombucha, I'm probably involved somehow. So all roads lead back to Kombucha Kamp. 

Chase Clymer

Awesome. Hannah, thank you so much. 

Hannah Ruhamah Crum

Thanks, Chase.  

Chase Clymer

We can't thank our guests enough for coming on the show and sharing their knowledge and journey with us. We've got a lot to think about and potentially add into our own business. You can find all the links in the show notes. 

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