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Bonus Episode: Flexibility Into Every Marketing Decision with Bradley Keefer & Justin Jefferson
Oct 9, 202524 min read

Bonus Episode: Flexibility Into Every Marketing Decision with Bradley Keefer & Justin Jefferson

Bradley Keefer is the Chief Revenue Officer and Justin Jefferson is the VP of Strategy & Insights at Keen Decision Systems, where Bayesian-powered marketing mix modeling meets scenario planning and outcome forecasting, helping brands move from rearview analytics to predictive decisioning.

With decades of combined experience across SaaS, analytics, and brand strategy, Bradley and Justin are redefining how marketers plan, forecast, and invest. Instead of treating marketing as a cost center, they help brands model “what if” scenarios, forecasting how every incremental dollar drives revenue across channels.

Whether you’re scaling a fast-growing brand or managing a multimillion-dollar marketing budget, Bradley and Justin offer a masterclass in using data to make confident, forward-looking decisions that compound over time.

In This Conversation We Discuss: 

  • [00:38] Intro
  • [01:12] Measuring how marketing spend drives growth
  • [02:29] Building models that adapt to brand maturity
  • [04:35] Balancing brand building with performance spend
  • [07:24] Shifting focus from capturing to creating demand
  • [08:41] Driving demand to boost bottom-funnel returns
  • [09:34] Breaking growth limits with data-driven planning
  • [12:49] Connecting viral moments to sustain momentum
  • [14:50] Building brands that go beyond ad optimization
  • [15:30] Stay updated with new episodes
  • [15:43] Simplifying setup for data-heavy marketing tools
  • [18:44] Designing analytics tools for marketing teams
  • [20:23] Updating models fast to learn and adapt quicker
  • [22:42] Using data to balance old and new media spend

Resources:

If you’re enjoying the show, we’d love it if you left Honest Ecommerce a review on Apple Podcasts. It makes a huge impact on the success of the podcast, and we love reading every one of your reviews!

 

Transcript

Justin Jefferson

What they ultimately end up doing is overspending at the bottom of the funnel  when they could be getting better returns by  increasing the demand.  

Bradley Keefer

The key right now that we're seeing  is not preparing for the viral moment is costing your business the trajectory to break through, right? Because what you'll have is you'll have something that goes viral and it breaks your supply chain. 

And it's like, “No, man, like you've got to be ready when that thing goes viral. You got to capitalize on it not only from a supply chain perspective.” But you have to be ready to start pumping marketing dollars around that tent pole moment. Because the only thing you can prepare for is the next potential tent pole moment. 

Chase Clymer

Honest Ecommerce is a weekly podcast where we interview direct-to-consumer brand founders and leaders to find out what it takes to start, grow, and scale an online business today.

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Honest Ecommerce. Today, I'm welcoming the show, not one but two extremely smart gentlemen, they're joining me from Keen Decision Systems. I've got Bradley Keefer, the Chief Revenue Officer and Justin Jefferson, the VP of Strategy and Insights over at Keen Decision Systems. Gentlemen, welcome to the show. 

Justin Jefferson

Thank you, Chase. 

Bradley Keefer

Appreciate you having us on. 

Chase Clymer

I'm excited. It's always fun when we have two people on. Quickly though, for those that aren't familiar with Keen Decision Systems, what problems are you solving over there? What are the types of products you may be bringing to the market?

Bradley Keefer

Yeah, the biggest thing for Keen is that we're really focused on marketing investment. So the marketing investment and from a measurement perspective, answering the question of how much did my historic marketing spend drive incremental revenue? How much is my brand building efforts quantifiable in my P&L? So questions like that. So think about it from a marketing mix type of perspective, but we're covering 100% of the brand's working dollars.

But the real sweet spot of Keen is on the planning and forecasting side. So at the end of the day, we're really a decision science tool. So from that measurement, we're able to answer questions like, “If I spent another million dollars, what is that going to do to my business from a top line revenue perspective? If I start to spend in this incremental marketing channel, how is that going to make the other channels more impactful through interaction effect?” So it really becomes a business planning, business forecasting tool, utilizing marketing investment as exactly that. An investment, rather than a cost center where it's like, I have to do it. So you're investing into your future brand building. So that's really what Keen does. 

Chase Clymer

Yeah, that's amazing. And there's a lot of questions that I have in there. And I'm going to try to do  right by my audience and let's get back to the basics here. So the cool thing about  the direct-to-consumer business model and just selling junk online, doesn't matter what you're selling, it's all math at the end of the day. But I would assume. And I could be wrong. And please correct me.

But there needs to be a certain threshold of sales and also data to where you can start to get into some of these more. Are these even more advanced models? Where's the floor for using something like this? 

Justin Jefferson

At the end of the day, more data will be more robust. No model is perfect, but models are helpful and they allow you to make better decisions. So with our particular methodology, we actually don't necessarily have a lower end threshold like a lot of the other kinds of competitors in the market might have. 

And a big reason for that is we take a Bayesian approach to our model. So that just means that whenever you build a model, you have kind of a starting point, like a kind of a benchmark average expectation based off of like, I think 14 plus different indicators, your industry, your business size, your lifecycle maturity, your amount of investment, your profitability, blah, blah, blah, blah. 

So many different factors just kind of help us identify a brand of your size, of your investment level, and your industry, and your maturity level with this level of investment, what would we expect the avatar ROI to be? And then obviously from there, are we pulling your data that helps drag and pull what that benchmark is to what your brand is driving? 

So if you have very little data, you're really probably going to be closer to our benchmarks. But if you have at least a year plus of data where you're activating multiple times, then ultimately the data will have the last say. So we don't necessarily have a low end threshold. We wanted to create an environment where you can be on the lower end or the higher end. Ultimately, we want to give you the flexibility to make the decision that makes the most sense for you. 

Chase Clymer

And you said that was a Bayesian-powered model? 

Justin Jefferson

That's correct. So Bayesian just means that we're starting with a prior assumption around the impact of each of these factors. And then layering in your data to try and truly identify the incrementality. 

Chase Clymer

Gotcha. Gotcha. That makes sense to me. And I hope that I didn't leave any lingering questions on the table for the audience. But moving on from there, for an early stage, direct-to-consumer brands, what would be some indications that it's time to diversify beyond Google and Meta

Bradley Keefer

Yeah. Our perspective there is the minute that you start spending dollars, you should diversify beyond Google and Meta. But we get it. A lot of people start in Google and Meta because it's easy. It's convenient. We get it like they have good targeting, they have good audiences and things like that. But what we find is that, you know, in all reality, they're good channels to start in. 

Like if I was picking the first two channels, like for sure, I would go start there. But what we actually find in our data is that brands hang on to that being their only strategy  way too long. And what I mean by that is like you start to spend over five hundred thousand dollars a year and you're still spending in Google and Meta alone.  

You might want to start looking at different channels. Start to think about videos and things like that because YouTube has a really solid interaction effect to Google search as an example, and starts to build some brand awareness. It's not as complicated as some other channels. You can use some of that video creative  and your Meta ads and things like that as well. And your organic social presence. So there's just like a maturity that has to be built. But I think at the end of the day for us, it's not just about like, is there a certain number of channels or like, is there a magic number at which you need to diversify.

It really comes down to like, what is the objective financially of the business? And are you trying to build a business that drives brand awareness? Because what we end up finding is that brands that hang on to Google and Meta too long as their only strategy is that the cost per's continue to go up. And now in this economic environment, their margins are coming down, cost per's are going up. And all of a sudden, D2Cs are saying, “Wait a minute, like it wasn't working the way it used to.”

Well, it doesn't always mean that Google and Meta are becoming less effective because there's a thing known as interaction effects where it's like, well, if I start to run that TikTok ad and start to run that YouTube ad, the amount that you could spend on Google and Meta actually goes up  and that cap will come down in regards to the Google and Meta activation. So it's really trying to find that right balance of the mix beyond just like, is there a magic number where it starts to become less effective?

So it really comes down to just business strategy, thinking about the marketing diversification. At what point do you start building a brand beyond just performance marketing? So it's a mindset thing. It's a business process thing. And it's a goals and objective thing. A lot of marketers just  start spending, keep optimizing. And then all of a sudden it's like, “Hey, it's not working as effectively. It must be creative. It must be our audience targeting.” And they start to find excuses rather than saying, “Well, it must be the fact that we're only spending in Google and Meta.”

Chase Clymer

There's so much there that I want to follow up on. The first one being brands that aren't investing in awareness. You highlighted there as a certain point, they will. It'll come to pass to where they can't grow anymore. 

Can we just elaborate more there? Because I know there's a lot of, I know this because I've talked to them. There are a lot of brands where every dollar needs to see an ROI because we're a small, scrappy, bootstrapped business. How would you maybe try to help them reconsider that hard line? 

Justin Jefferson

That's right on the money. I think what we hear and what we see is when brands are getting started, they want to be able to track every single dollar they invest. And the easiest way to track every single dollar you invest is to spend at the bottom of the funnel where you're capturing the demand, where the time between that ad and the purchase is smallest, the window's tightest, the trackability is the greatest. 

So yeah, that's where they spend at the bottom of the funnel, capturing that demand. But what they ultimately end up doing is overspending at the bottom of the funnel when they could be getting better returns by increasing the demand. 

Chase Clymer

Yeah. 

Justin Jefferson

So you think about the opportunity of just capturing the demand versus driving that demand.  People ignore the fact that they can really drive more demand and they just keep trying to overtake it. 

Chase Clymer

Yeah, I feel like at a certain point, you run out of people you can potentially sell to, but you're still spending more to get to the people you haven't sold to within a smaller bucket. I'm sure you guys have a more poetic way to say what I just said.  

Justin Jefferson

Yeah, we like to think about what we call the MROI. So what is the return on the next dollar you invest? You might have a very strong Google strategy right now where you're going after non-brand, brand, maybe some conquests, etc. But the question really becomes that nth dollar that you add on top of your Google brand, your Google end brand, non-brand, would it be better  to keep investing there or would it be better to actually invest at the top of funnel that drives the demand that you're already set up to capture down there. 

And when we work through this and test this out with multiple customers, we see that you actually get a 20% 30% lift to your demand capture tactics when you start to drive the top of the bottle. 

Chase Clymer

Yeah, I think there's life cycles in business and then there's life cycles in this performance marketing world. It's like, going from no spend to some spend is like a super big mindset shift for brands. And then I think there's this  shift from where they realize, “Okay, the more money we spend, the more money we're going to get out of this thing as long as we can continue  to produce good products and produce good ads.” 

And those mindset shifts are, I think, the limiting factor for a lot of businesses that aren't scaling beyond $1 or $2 million a year.  So I guess how would you consult with a brand that is limiting their growth by putting hard caps on their performance spend. 

Bradley Keefer

Yes, that's really, at the end of the day, what our tool is designed to do. And if you go back to the Bayesian approach that Justin talked about earlier, the benefit of our system is that the Bayesian approach allows us to incorporate what's known as prior information or we talk about it from a knowledge estate perspective. And this could be a brand spend. So it's like what you've spent on Google, what you've spent on Meta.

But the bigger advantage is the fact that when you unlock our tool, you're actually unlocking brands that look like you. So we have about 400 brands that work within our platform.  And there's about $35 billion in activations that run through our system. And that's not all just like, oh, well, they must have like Procter & Gamble and these huge companies. It's like, no, you're talking about, we have a bunch of really small accounts. 

Well, the benefit that you have then is when you run the planning module, it is planning for a brand like poppi beverage, who started on D2C, who launched in Amazon, who gained brick and mortar presence, right? Well, their plan when they started working with us years ago is not the plan that they're running today. They had to figure out how to constantly shift. Well, now Keen has done the same thing with so many other brands now as well, where part of that learning unlock is you get that trajectory of like, when's the right time to add that next channel and what's the right next channel to add and at what investment level. 

And if I add that, how much is that going to increase? And again, like Justin said too, it's like, it's not like there's a perfect model, but I have a bell curve and a probabilistic outcome that is way more accurate than what you have right now as a brand, which is a gut feel and uncertainty and skepticism around like, is it actually working for me? So again, it's like having that knowledge estate that Keen is bringing of those billions of dollars for hundreds of other brands. 

It's like, I could probably show you a probabilistic path, almost like a hurricane model. It's like, I don't know where the hurricane is going to land, but I know the cone of uncertainty and I've got a pretty good shot at forecasting and actualizing this thing  to the point where you can build that process of repeatability and certainty, even in the midst of probabilistic uncertainty. 

But having a range of an upper and lower bound is much easier to execute marketing within than just saying, I've got a gut feel and I'm just trusting PMAX to deliver the gold. Well, it might not. So that's what we're trying to bring into the market. 

Chase Clymer

That's the most honest answer I've heard from anyone selling a business analytics tool in the longest time. Like, I can't guarantee it. Nobody knows, but I can show you based upon data what it could and should be. 

Bradley Keefer

Yeah, because the reality is, no one knows. Your product could go viral tomorrow and all of a sudden you spike up. 

Chase Clymer

Yeah.

Bradley Keefer

But the key right now that we're seeing is not preparing for the viral moment is costing your business the trajectory to break through. Because what you'll have is something that goes viral and it breaks your supply chain. And it's like you've got to be ready when that thing goes viral, you got to capitalize on it not only from a supply chain perspective, but you have to be ready to start pumping marketing dollars around that tent pole moment. Because the only thing you can prepare for is the next potential tent pole moment.

You're either going to create it because the market gives you that opportunity with Prime Day or other things like that or Black Friday, or you can create your own by just having some content that goes viral or having a moment. But what you can't control is like which one goes viral and when does it go viral? But if you're prepared to connect those tent pole moments, you will increase and break through. 

Like that's what we see as the successful formula. So it's less about creating the viral moment and more so preparing to capitalize on that viral moment by creating the next tent pole moment and then figuring out how to systematically connect them together. 

That's the story of the DTC brands that have worked for us. They had a viral moment, then they latched onto New Year, New You, then they latched onto Prime Day, then they latched onto the Olympics, then they latched onto Black Friday, and they started creating those tent pole moments and working around them, and they had minor viral moments organically that happened in between.

And that's really what this influencer-based economy and basically consumer-driven economy is actually breaking these brands through. It's not like if I just spend perfectly on Meta and Google, therefore I'll break through. It's just not true. The data doesn't support that.  

Chase Clymer

Yeah, I think that  the unfortunate reality for Meta and Facebook is they're just. Those are table stakes and you still have to have  some sort of differentiation to your product. It's either a new way to solve a common problem, or there's some sort of taste behind the aesthetic of your branding, you gotta still be differentiated. It's not 2015 anymore. 

An undimped, differentiated product can't break through just using these performance tools anymore. It's like that's gone. That's the thing of the path. It still needs a good product. And then you need smart marketing.

Hey everybody, just a quick reminder. Please like this video and subscribe if you haven't. We're releasing interviews like this every week, so don't miss out. Now back to the interview.

Chase Clymer

Now you said something earlier. You were talking about getting all this data into a platform like  Keen offers to help come up with  this is what you should maybe potentially experiment, add some money here into this channel, add some money and maybe try this channel is the next thing you do, right? That sounds like a lot of data and it sounds like a lot of work. How hard is it to get this thing set up? 

Justin Jefferson

Yeah, I mean, I will honestly say I think that's one of the kind of components that we tell in the market, we're able to get to results much quicker. Part of that is just because we have a very flexible system that brings in data of all different formats and shapes and sizes from all different places. 

Part of that is because we have that kind of Bayesian background to enable a model that doesn't come with very skewed results. If you don't have guardrails around your model, the model might come back with something that's really outside expectations. But because we're balancing our models against the hundreds of other models that have seen the billions of other dollars we've seen, we're able to kind of calibrate your reads appropriately. Where you usually would have a data scientist sitting there working on it and tweaking it for months at a time. The normal turnaround for a marketing mix was six months, 12 months.

Obviously, it's getting faster. But we've seen brands stood up in 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 6 weeks. 6 weeks is what our average is. But Net-Net, if you can get your sales data by week or by month, you can get your marketing spend by week or by month. And then any type of holiday promotion activities, then you can have a model set up within a couple of days. 

Bradley Keefer

Yeah. honestly. We've built the system where you don't need an IT team and you don't need a data science  team. And we've built it for marketers who honestly hate math.

We've built it in a way where we allow a marketer to understand  math, understand investing when they hate that, and where they don't have an IT team who can pull all the data and API the data. So we've built this as turnkey as possible for this exact use case. Because again, and the reason we did is we just couldn't answer those questions. 

Even for ourselves as a business, it's like I'm running a B2B software company. It's like, well, the best thing I have is like my CRM. It's like, well, this isn't really that helpful. Like, how do I know where to spend my dollars? It's like, “I have attribution, but attribution is just telling me everything is working for everyone.”

And it's like, “Wait a minute, like that's not helpful either, right? Because it's not true. And I don't believe it.” So we've built it in a way where it's like, you click some buttons, you put in a username and password, we extract the data and then you click some buttons. Like you can go from, I don't have a Keen account.

Do I have a model and results in less than 20 minutes? Like it is very doable. And that's not an exaggeration. The six weeks that Justin's talking about is like, well, I got to figure out who has the data. And it's like, think Jim has a spreadsheet, right? You know what I mean? It's like, so like that's what it, it's the people trying to find the data or like who has the spreadsheet. 

That typically is what takes the time. But once you have the data, it's like, I can drag and drop the spreadsheet or I can click here to add the API. It's not that complicated. It's really the mapping and the people that make it slow. 

Chase Clymer

Yeah. And if you are on a more popular tech stack solution out there, a lot of your spins Meta and Google and you're on Shopify, I'm assuming it makes this process infinitely easier. 

Bradley Keefer

Yeah. have APIs already built to them. So you're literally putting in your username and password as if you're logging into those platforms, we have the API and extract the data. That's it. And then the decisions that you'll have to make from there are like, “Well, do I want to categorize certain campaigns? Because you're not always looking at all the campaigns individually. 

Cause like I ran this hundred dollar campaign. Well, that's just going to create noise. So the decisions that you end up having to make are like, well, which ones do I group together? And we have some guidance there. So it's like, you know, which ones have a call to action, which ones have a certain promotion. So this one has all of these 10 campaigns have 10% off. All of these have 20% off. All of these have to buy one, get one. Great.

Or it could be a call to action or a creative or something like that, right? So you're typically grouping certain campaigns together, but there are rules that you can build to normalize that mapping process. So again, even that process isn't as complicated. But again, I'd be lying to you if I said there was no work involved, it's not that turnkey, but we've made it as turnkey as possible because again, the folks that we're talking about here are like, I’'m a one man shop or I'm a three person team, right?”  

This isn't just for a Proctor and Gamble. Right? This is a tool that is built and designed for a one to three person shop.  And yeah, the big guys use it too. Why? Because I've created so much efficiency that they don't need to hire teams of people to use our system, which is what they used to have to do with the old players.  

Chase Clymer

And then just to reiterate, now that we've walked through a lot of these challenges and stuff, it's like, the advantage of using a platform like this is it's just going to help you with the decision making around where you're going to spend those next dollars? 

Justin Jefferson

Absolutely. It's time to decide because we are going to get there so quickly. You can update your model so quickly. You can support the next investment very quickly. But the application isn't always on. So we have customers planning for months for certain quarters or, “Hey, we know 3 months from now, we're going to lose some budget.” 

So we can just plan for that time period.  So you can be as interactive with the time periods that you want to model. And if you want to update and kind of learn from the most recent month or quarter, you can update it very quickly and just immediately start forecasting. 

Bradley Keefer

Yeah, the key for a lot of these brands from our perspective is like, can you fail faster and be more certain about the future? Like both of those things need to be true at the same time. So I want to update the model in real time so I can fail faster, learn faster and adjust faster. Like at the end of the day, that's where we see brands who break through on the D2C side are the brands who have a three-year target, a one-year target, a six-month target, and a next quarter target. 

And they're just constantly holding those truths to be equal at the same time. Because what ends up happening is a lot of DTC brands become performance marketing heavy, which means they're constantly chasing the next month and the next month, and they end up sacrificing the long term. They start thinking about marketing as a cost. How do I just make the cost more effective rather than how do I make the investment of marketing more effective in compounding that impact through time. 

So you wanna think about it like a 401k more so than you wanna think about it as a bidding platform. Because if you're just looking at bidding, the system in which you're doing the bidding will always win. You wanna start to build that plan that says, how do I break through and not become reliant upon this bidding system?

Because again, it's like I need to diversify. I need to add new channels. I need to invest more. And I need to compound that investment through time and make every working dollar interact with the revenue tomorrow, a year from now and three years from now. That's the concept of building a brand through time. And that's the difference between brands who make it and brands who don't from what we've seen. 

Chase Clymer

That's amazing. And then earlier you mentioned that there's this relationship between spending in one place and seeing results in a different place. And as things get harder and people are starting to diversify against different feeds, they're trying new,  extremely new platforms like advertising on streaming or  influencer, or heck just even moving to offline advertising digitally for offline sales.

These all seem like extremely hard decisions for a brand that hasn't done it before. But it seems like if you are now allowed to drop in a model that is seeing this data from 400 plus other brands, it can make those choices a lot more palatable. 

Bradley Keefer

Yeah. And that's the learnings that come out of our marketing elasticity engine. What are the channels that had worked for other brands?  And we're seeing this in D2C right now. It's actually fascinating. The brands who are winning go beyond Meta and Google. The obvious are like, yeah, add TikTok. Yes, add YouTube.

But there's things like print and direct mail that everybody's like, “Oh, they're not the cool new.” It's like they're actually pretty effective channels,  just like email and things like that. And you can do a mailing campaign and a print campaign pretty cheap, right? Because they're not the sexy new marketing tool. Therefore, their cost per se are coming down and they have really good targeting. So it's like you see millennials and younger actually engage with direct mail. 

And again, it's not like people hear this and they're like, well, how could you possibly? And it's like, I'm not talking about like a million dollars in direct mail campaigns. Like it's not that expensive and it has a pretty solid return. So I think  we have to just suspend a little bit of our disbelief that some of these legacy channels are not effective. And like, that's not right, the data doesn't support that at all. So again, it's like using a system that has information that says, “Well, how much should I spend in direct mail? How much should I spend on some of these legacy channels?” 

Because again, their feeling is right, that it's like, yeah, you used to spend a third of your budget on radio. It's like, I'm not telling you that, but if you spend a third of your budget on podcasts or streaming or Twitch, would that be effective? Yeah, probably. You know what I mean? So it's like, there's just like more effective channels that are out there beyond Google and Meta. The challenge generally is that they're harder to set up. You know, they're not, they don't have as sophisticated of systems, but they have good targeting.

They have good cost per's. They have really good effectiveness. And that's a lot of the work that Justin does within our team is like, what is the data actually showing us the mix should be? And at what revenue cohort? At what stage of my business? And part of the reason that the data supports this is not only the D to C businesses win this way, but D2C's that then gain brick and mortar presence and being able to measure that halo and using that marketing to drive interest from retailers.

It is just as important of a marketing tactic as it is selling more units through Shopify, right? So yes, I can sell those units and yes, you need those metrics to go into Walmart. But if Walmart knows who you are because of the viral moments you've created and things like that, it's a very different business case to go into those retailers than just like, I'm selling more units on Shopify. Look how amazing my sales are. Because at some point your sales will plateau without the right mix. Justin, anything you'd add there? 

Justin Jefferson

Yeah. I mean, I think you're bringing up a lot of great trends that, some of the more traditional tactics that have been thought of as, you know, kind of old and antiquated have improved their targeting capabilities, their cost kind of structure. And honestly, we're actually seeing it bounce back, especially a lot of kind of out of home sponsorships, partnerships, kind of event stuff.  We're seeing a bit of an increase across our portfolio on that side. 

So net net, I'd say like, you know, there's a large swath of potential tactics to employ, like don't discount any of them. 

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. Now, gentlemen, if I'm listening to this show, and what to do with our marketing spend is a pain point for me, and I'm looking to pick your guys' brain about it, where should I go? What should I do? 

Bradley Keefer

Yes, our website is Keends.com. Feel free to fill out a form. There's a Contact Us form. But one of the things I'm most excited about is that we put a lot of insights out there in regards to case studies, how to guide. So how do I build a marketing plan? How do I build media plans?

And then Justin and his team are putting out a lot of insights around like how much are people spending on what channels and at what size do I need to be? So there's a lot of free insights that show up there as well. So again, it's like you can come to our website, fill out the demo request form. 

You'll get someone from my team that gives you a demo of the application. We'll kind of walk you through the how-tos, but I think there's just a wealth of information there that folks should go lean into, which is the playbooks that we've built as well as the insights dashboard. So keends.com, so Keen Decision Systems.

Chase Clymer

Awesome. Just thank you so much for coming on the show today and sharing all those awesome insights. It definitely made me nerd out a little bit, which is always fun to do. And yeah, I'm excited to see you guys grow and learn more about you and probably have you back on in 6 to 8 months to talk about other nerd stuff. 

Justin Jefferson

Sounds great. Thanks for having us, Chase. 

Bradley Keefer

Sounds good. Thanks for the opportunity. 

Justin Jefferson

Take care.

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