Bonus Episode: Solving the IOS 14 Attribution Problem Using Triple Whale

In This Conversation We Discuss:

• [00:00] Intro
• [01:41] How AJ used to run ads before Triple Whale
• [02:52] The health of your business depends on blended ROAS
• [03:23] Clarification about IOS 14
• [03:46] Performance degraded because FB lacks customer info
• [04:08] What made the FB platform better
• [04:42] FB is challenging to run for brands
• [05:41] Why AJ founded an attribution company
• [06:10] Triple Whale tries to provide the lost visibility from FB
• [06:32] The Triple Whale Pixel is not yet the be-all, end-all
• [07:33] What is Pixel and why does your business need it?
• [08:36] Why is Triple Whale different from Facebook?
• [10:06] The Pixel is good but not simple
• [10:45] How Electric Eye uses Triple Whale
• [11:20] The Forecasting Calculator
• [13:00] ROAS, CPA, and AOV on the Summary Page
• [15:16] The Triple Whale Pixel
• [15:46] Taking advantage of the Channel Overlap
• [17:00] Inventory management dictates paid ad spend
• [18:39] Client compatibility through Triple Whale
• [19:19] The misalignment in attribution causes distrust
• [20:47] How Facebook can get away with messy attribution
• [21:37] Attribution Model Comparison
• [23:01] Other features that are coming to Triple Whale
• [23:54] The Customer Journey feature
• [24:24] Web domain shenanigans
• [24:45] Triple Whale’s Mobile App
• [25:56] What differentiates Electric Eye from other agencies
• [27:16] Electric Eye’s Brand Scaling Framework
• [28:18] Scaling is achieved through harmony in teams

Resources:

• Subscribe to Honest Ecommerce on Youtube
• Electric Eye provides Shopify-powered sales machines to suit your strategic design, development, and marketing needs
• Triple Whale is the central source of truth for your Ecommerce store Use code ELECTRICEYE for a discount!
• Listen to another bonus episode about Electric Eye’s Brand Scaling Framework
• Connect with Chase
• Connect with Ryan
• Connect with AJ
• Connect with Rabah

Transcript

Chase Clymer

Hey everybody listening to this. This is actually a video on YouTube and you should go watch the video because there's actually screen recordings of all of the features and functionalities that we're going to discuss during  this video or podcast, I guess you're listening to in a podcast form. 

But anyways. Welcome, everybody. I am Chase. I'm the founder of Electric Eye. We create Shopify-powered sales machines from strategic design, development, and marketing decisions. Also here from my team is Ryan. Ryan, you want to say hi and introduce yourself? 

Ryan Shaw

Hi, everybody. My name is Ryan Shaw. I'm the performance  marketing manager for Electric Eye. So I manage everything on the marketing side of our business from  paid media channels through retention marketing. Awesome. And also joining us are some super smart gentlemen from the Triple Whale team. Want to introduce yourselves? 

AJ Orbach

Yes, I'll go. I'm AJ. I'm one of the co-founders of Triple Whale.  

Rabah Rahil

I am Rabah, the CMO over at Triple Whale. AJ is a right-hand man when he has those incredible features to launch and that big product brain starts cranking. I'm the guy that gets it to the people.

Chase Clymer

Awesome. Alright. So I guess I'll introduce this real quick and I'll let the guys that really know the sauce dive into it a bit more. So a problem at our agency, Electric Eye, that we've been facing  probably for the last year and I guarantee everybody listening is facing this exact same problem is attribution for their ads. And this is probably all on the back of a bunch of iOS updates. So this has been a big issue for our clients at the agency and going to talk a bit more about that problem. The floor is yours, Team Triple Whale.  

AJ Orbach

I want to go into a little bit of how we used to run our ads before we had Triple Whale. And also how we think of, in general, attribution as well. And then why we decided even to take the pledge into trying to help with attribution. So originally, actually, I started off as a CMO or really marketer for a brand called Madison Braids, which used to sell hair accessories.

One thing I like to say, niches go deep on the internet. It's pretty,  you meet someone and you say like, what do you sell? You're like, I sell handbraids. They think you might be willing like, you know, five, $10,000 a month. Now, some months we ran over a million dollars, right? It's pretty insane how deep these things go. We never ran our brand off of Facebook ROAS. This is going back three years back, like never. We always ran off the blend. And if the blend was good,  we just pushed hard. Facebook said a 0.5, blend was good and just pushed. And part of the reason was, first of all, we were a single channel. We only  advertise on Facebook. So we knew. If I press the button here, traffic comes here. There's nowhere else it goes.  

And so the blend was our main metric that we  optimized off of. Going forward, I think that's still true. I still think blended and healthier business is really where most businesses should still spend a lot of effort in trying to figure out what the right blend is for their business.

What the right blend per channel is and still optimize on that. What happened with iOS 14.5 was two things. First of all, there was a performance degradation that happened because of Facebook, essentially there's a privacy battle between Apple and Facebook. Apple essentially put some policies in place that don't let Facebook use a lot of the data that they actually observe. So a clarification about iOS 14, people think Facebook can't steal the data. Facebook sees everything.

There's still that mega surveillance company that can see everything. They just can't use the data. And if they use the data the way they used to, Apple will literally kick them off the platform. So the downside of them not using the data or using the data is bigger than them actually using it. So that's why they don't use it. So I would say there's like a 25% degradation in performance because Facebook can't actually, it doesn't have everything they know, but every specific customer anymore. 

If they knew that I went and when I went to the bathroom, literally, I think they track those things. And we have clever ways of doing that. I think they can't do that as well today as they used to do before. And therefore they're targeting, which essentially that's what Facebook is an AI company that figures out what people like and services are the best ads at the right price. That's what made Facebook and what still makes Facebook significantly better than any other platform that exists or ever existed. Maybe soon there'll be some other platform that's better, but for now they're still the best at that.

So that could really become less powerful. Simultaneously, the actual attribution of what campaign ads and ads matter today, like this last week, so the visibility also dropped by 25 to 50%. And if you can pound both of those problems together, so both the fact that performance is not as good as it was, and on top of that visibility is not as good, it makes it extremely challenging for a lot of brands to run.

So much so that actually the brand that we were running, basically got crushed from this. CPMs rose. We were basically a CBA arbitrage business. We didn't innovate a lot on the LTV of the brand and the new product offerings. And so we were an impulse buy. And as you advertise more on Facebook, CPAs go up, right? Cost per purchase goes up. Usually it doesn't happen if you spend a million dollars. When you spend like $10 million on Facebook and you start hitting every woman in the US, ads go up, right? 

You duplicate that immediate pool of buyers that would buy from you immediately. so understanding your ads has never been more important, never been more important considering that CPAs rose across the board because of everyone coming in with COVID and everyone, all the big brands moving into Facebook and Facebook also losing a lot of its magic.

And so the reason we got into attribution as a company is really just to help, right? Like we were like,  how do we manage our business, right? How can we help brands? How do we navigate this forward? And the only way that we can see, like we can't fix Facebook's performance. No one can besides Facebook, but at least we can give you back visibility, right? Or at least visibility close to what it was. For you, it was 14.5. I think even  in some ways, visibility was  more important  because the competition is higher and performance is lower.  Visibility has never been more important right now.

And we're trying to give you visibility that was even better than iOS 14.5. Like before iOS 14.5, I think Triple Whale’s visibility will even exceed that. And so that is what we've been building in Triple Whale. We're very excited about it. I think we have, we're tracking an absurd amount of sales right now and a lot of large brands are using the pixel and small brands are using the pixel. And I think people across the board are getting a lot of value out of it. So we're very excited about the results. I don't think the pixel yet is like an all adult answer to attribution. 

I think attribution still has levels and layers that we're going to be peeling off in Triple Whale.  But I think we have the best team in the world working on this around the clock. Like I sometimes meet brands and then let's say,  there's some brands that their click data just sucks,  You can't,  attribution just doesn't work for them. Not a lot of people see their ad, they come a week later, they buy, there's no way of tracking them with click data.  And even Facebook can't click them. There's a brand that I have in mind from Twitter right now. His blend is a four, his in on travel metrics are 0.5.

Triple's metrics are 0.7, great. We gave him 30% more than Facebook. It's still not nearly what he needs in order to understand really what's happening in his business. And so do I think there are ways that we can take all the data that he has, whether it's pixel data or in-platform data or his store data and combine those to give you actually an holistic answer to the questions you ask, which essentially, where should I spend my money?  How much should I scale? And of my business.

Chase Clymer

AJ, you shared a lot of awesome information about the problem. But I'm a moron. What is this pixel? What does it actually do? And why does my Ecommerce brand need it?  

AJ Orbach

Yes. So the pixel... What the pixel does, essentially, it's like a camera. It's in your store. It's not even a pixel. We don't actually have a physical pixel in your store. It literally is like a camera. Imagine someone walking into your shop, and we follow them around. And we know we take their photo.

It's your device. It's whatever else it is, right? And you come back to the shop a week later, we still know who you are. And so when you come into the shop, you're usually wearing a UTM, right? So you usually bring Facebook, this campaign, this ad. So we're like, oh, we know you, we know you came from. And so if you come back a week later, a month later, a year later, the pixel will still track you. Now the obvious question is, why does Facebook not track? The answer is Facebook does.

Facebook tracks exactly what we track. Facebook just can't use that data and show you that data. It's amazing. This question of why we are different from Facebook is why TripleL didn't get into attribution sooner. It was the question I had. was like, why would anyone build attribution? There are attribution platforms that existed pre-IOS 14.5. I think a lot of big players and a lot of people know they existed before. I never understood why they used them. Actually, now that I built it, I understand why they built it. But before that, I didn't understand why they would build it.

The answer is the pixel is extremely sophisticated. It's the most sophisticated camera you can get. It's very close to 100% of what you can get with ClickLater. There isn't a lot more we can innovate on the camera. The camera's visibility is basically like 100, what's a good camera today? Apple's like 12 megapixels, but whatever. It's as high as you can get to, right? 

On the camera  we follow people around, we track them, and we attribute them back to the right ad gives you visibility like things like new customer roles, like new customer CPA out of per campaign ad set or out of profit on a campaign ad set or ad level. It gives you email signups ratio per campaign ad set and that. Things you literally can't get from Facebook or any other platform. 

Chase Clymer

It's very awesome. And I was playing dumb earlier because I wanted him to really explain it. And so this has been a fantastic tool that we've used at our agency. And I'm going to let Ryan educate our listeners as to how you actually use this thing in marketing and Ecommerce. 

AJ Orbach

Yeah. The Pixel, it's not simple tech. Everything you get into, it becomes simple once you understand how it works. It took us a lot. From when the idea came in, we decided Pixel was a good product to bring. We worked 18-hour days for 3 months straight. Around the clock. There were times that developers used to ask them. They didn't know if it was 5 a.m. or 5 p.m.

That's how crazy we worked to get this out and quickly.  A lot of it's just to do anything we see that we can help you guys with in terms of trying to get you guys better decisions  as we're here for. So yeah, mean, it was a hard project to get off the ground. And we're very proud of it at this point.  

Ryan Shaw

Yeah. And  AJ and Rabah, you guys will have  plenty more information. So as I'm hopping through here, if there's more clarification you guys can offer, please do so. And I'm going to talk through not just with the Pixel. Obviously, we'll relate how we are using the Pixel but really just how we at the agency are using the platform and also how I think some other agencies can use the platform with their clients as well. 

Rabah Rahil

Love it. 

Ryan Shaw

Let me get us sharing over here. Alright, we're here? Everyone see me? So I'm going to jump in  and start right out at the Forecasting Calculator here. So we're looking at the last 30 days right now. And I think that this is a really spectacular way to start out as an agency to start out in engagement, whether that is actually development or  with marketing as well. So everyone comes in with goals, they come in with an idea of what they'd like to do, what they'd like to hit.

And this is the perfect place to start. So if we know that we're going to keep a similar ROAS across the board, but we want to affect other things. We're looking at 196,000 and some change in sales in the last 30 days. We'll just call that a month. And someone saying that they're trying to get to 250K a month in sales, we can hop down here and look at the different metrics and assume, holding the same row as if I jump in here and I say, okay, we're hitting 865 orders. If I want to get to 250k, okay, I need to pump up my order volume a bit more, get to 1,000. So we're closer to that number. 

And then I can look at that, the change here in my order value. And obviously, some of our other metrics have been affected here. But I can look at the number of orders that I've got here or for affecting conversion rate, which is a bit more on the web development side. Average order value, same thing. Cross sells, upsells, things like that. I can back my way into getting that 250k metric. But I also can use this number. I'm going to hop over to our summary page here.

and take a look at a couple of different metrics here. So with that forecasting calculator, knowing that I need to make up a certain volume of orders, we're focusing here on paid media. When we're talking about paid specifically, it's our new customer rollout. So what is our return, specifically on new customers? 

And then additionally, what's our cost per acquisition on our new customers? How I'm going to stair step my way into how much budget do we need to add to what's currently being spent to land on? What is our budget going to be? How are we going to get there? Does this make sense? Does it all make sense with our average order value?

Does this all work together? So I'm looking at my new customer return. We're looking pretty strong here. My cost acquisition for new customers is also looking pretty strong, particularly when I put these two against what our average order value is. And that's something factoring in. In the long term,  AJ, like you were mentioning  with the hair accessories where we're not even factoring in here lifetime value and new products where once we have acquired this person, once we paid $30 to acquire that person, we're making this return on them. 

We're hitting an average order value around $230. But that average order value can then be reflected out over that customer lifetime. And so once we've acquired them, the revenue that we can make there with new products, with retention, email marketing, SMS marketing is pretty  outstanding. And then to even  go deeper in, we'll get into the pixel here. The big thing that I personally want to talk about here is the channel overlap. So again, looking at the last 30 days and understanding. 

So we're operating in Facebook, Google, Pinterest, and then we've got Klaviyo in here. And I want to see where my sales are coming from? Is there a crazy overlap? This is going to be a huge factor for us. People talk to us all the time about, how do I understand where things are coming from? How do I understand how my channels are interacting with one another? And everyone wants to pull the budget out or pull the budget in because the return inside of a different platform is saying something a different way. And the attribution model is obviously so difficult to compete with. 

But with this channel overlap and being able to understand, okay, cool. We are having people that are coming in through Facebook and Google. And we are having people that are coming in through Pinterest and through Google. It helps us understand that we can't really  totally abandon a specific channel.

But we can figure out ways for all of these channels to better  interact with one another to achieve that return that we talked about to then ultimately achieve that sales goal that we talked about as well. 

AJ Orbach

Beautiful, Ryan. I actually haven't seen a Pinterest  live yet on the platform. So that's really cool to see. I  have one question. Why are you guys scaling harder? Like with that type of ROAS?

Ryan Shaw

Obviously, we'd love to. But we are at the mercy and will of budgets. 

Chase Clymer

They can't produce products fast enough. 

AJ Orbach

Okay, great. That's another factor we're thinking of building in. It's something that you wouldn't assume that is relevant. Inventory management is so relevant to paid ads, specifically because of what you just mentioned right now. How can you meet your ad? If you're crushing it on ads, but there's nothing to sell, it sucks because a 7-row ad on a new customer, that's insane. 

You should be doing a million or 2 million a month on that, not 200,000. So we're thinking of how we can build that and also triple-weld to try to model it out for you. So you would understand what you need to order in order to reach those scales.  

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. And that's something just from an agency side of things. We always have to ask people in those first conversations, we're like, hey, what would happen if your sales doubled overnight? Could you actually fulfill those orders? And it always leads to interesting conversations because everybody wants to make more money. 

Let's be real. People are in this game to make some money. That's why you start businesses. It's fun. But when you start talking about  real results and what has to happen to do those results, it's always very interesting. People are like, well, maybe I have to order more stuff and like, yeah.

Also, it costs money to make money. If you want to make an extra $2 million, and you're going to 5X return on ad spend, that's $400K that you need to spend on ads. Do you have that liquid? How are you going to get that? 

AJ Orbach

I think these are all great questions. I also think that it would help you guys. Let's say you guys seem like a phenomenal agency just looking at those numbers. I don't know the other stores you run, but that looks phenomenal. You guys can then decide, is this the client I want to work with? Essentially, is this client willing to spend what I think I can do?

Or is it not worth it? Like if they can't scale and they don't have the stomach, a lot of times it's just like guts, right? You gotta be like, okay, if we hit these numbers, this is what we need to do, right? And there's a lot of great financing tools out there, like Clearco, Wayflyer, or all the ones of the uncaps of the world, right? There's a ton of those. I can help you guys, so that I can help your clients. 

Ryan Shaw

.I'm sure AJ, you've seen this and Rabah, you guys both work in marketing. So you've seen this too, where there has been a sense of distrust in what people's returns are over the years, over the last couple of years, just because of the way that Facebook was doing their attribution and the way that Pinterest does their attribution and this and the other thing. 

And so I think the other thing that sometimes we battle against that I think the pixel is helping alleviate is that information isn't coming through a different source now. It's coming through a source that people feel like they have more trust and more faith in. And that's helping alleviate that stress of trying to say, like, no. This is real. 

This is actually what we're getting. It's like, now we have an avenue to be like, no, we're not having to seal this. This data isn't coming from someone who's benefiting from us, from giving us inflated data. This data is coming from  us  and from our store and from what we're doing. And it benefits us to build on that. 

AJ Orbach

Yeah. I think that that point's a great point. It's like, imagine you buy a car and the car company is the one that rates the car. Like it's the same thing with Facebook, right? Like essentially we're trusting Facebook.

It's unbelievable how Facebook, how messy their attribution could be sometimes.  The only reason they get away with it is just because, first of all, they're handicapped by Apple. But second of all, even beforehand, the experience from an ad buyer's perspective on the ad manager is so bad. It's like, it's insane. It's great. I think the reason is because they're a monopoly, right? They essentially have a monopoly on attention. It doesn't really matter how painful it is for Rabah or for you guys to buy ads. 

There's nowhere else you can. And I honestly think in the last earnings call, that's what they're facing, that they're not a monopoly anymore. All of sudden, TikTok is a big factor and Pinterest is a big factor. And as more omnichannel happens, I think also Facebook will have to up their game in terms of how they treat the ad buyers. 

Ryan Shaw

We can only hope that they update. 

Chase Clymer

Cool. You guys got any other cool features that you're allowed to announce that might be coming in the near future?

RJ Orbach

Well, first of all, on the pixel page, I don't know if you could bring it back for a second. You'll see we just launched attribution model comparison. It's actually very cool. So we launched a new attribution model called fractional attribution. A lot of the industry calls it linear, but we added some smarts to it. It's not just linear and dividing it. So if you click on that, if you scroll over the go to the ROAS, the triple ROAS, and then on the Triple Whale, yeah. 

Rabah Rahil

Rubik's cube.

AJ Orbach

There's a little, so go down to like the 4.9 one, click on it. So here you go. So here you have the different attribution models. I guess fractional, or you're looking backwards, fractional only works going from today on. If you look at today, fractional would be there. But over here, you see the different attribution models. So you can start visualizing and understand how they play into each other. So if you have a purchase that happened between Facebook and Google, who deserves the credit for that? So on fractional, they would get 50-50. 

In Facebook, if you have two campaigns of prospecting and retargeting, Facebook would attribute all the revenue back to the retargeting since you last clicked, right? The fractional will divide that attribution between those two prospecting and retargeting, so you can actually get a better ROAS. So wouldn't all fall under the retargeting bucket, but also under the prospecting. So you understand maybe I need to spend more on prospecting, so retargeting is heavier. Other features that are coming next week. So first of all, the Pixel actually was splitting that screen into four screens. Pretty cool. So you're to have your ads dashboard, your email and SMS dashboard, an influencer slash affiliate dashboard, and a social organic.

So we'll be able to track everything with the Pixel. We're gonna launch UTM schemes for those as well. And there'll be an all dashboard, which you can see basically all the channels that we've tracked today and what they're like, here's a question that you can't easily answer today with the Pixel. There's a spike in your store. You don't know where it came from. Like, what is that? So that all dashboard will basically answer that. Oh, there's this specific UTM. I think also going forward, people that use the Pixel should start being religious about UTMs. 

Use UTMs in every single channel you send out and should have a UTM attached to it  as much as you can. Obviously, word of mouth is going to be harder to track. But everything besides direct word of mouth  should have a UTM so we can track that journey over time.  

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. And there's another feature that I really love that I actually don't want to show here because I want people to go and use this software because it's really cool. It's that customer journey thing that you guys launched a week or two ago. That is  so cool. And it really helps to  paint a picture that all of your marketing works together and

Yes. Just gutting one channel is probably a dumb idea. if you guys are interested in Triple Whale, go on triplewhale.com, correct? 

Rabah Rahil

Try triplewhale.com. 

AJ Orbach

That's the landing. So the landing page is try triplewhale.com. We got to move it to triplewhale.com. That's a long history. Not easy when you start off with one. When you're a tech company, you start off with one domain. It gets very, very hard to move it. We have so many integrations right now on the platform. There's a lot to update there.

But try triplewhale.com as the landing page. You can sign up there and then triplewhale.com is where you would live. Another feature I want to call out, which I think is insane usage. I think a third of the sessions of users on Triple Whale is on the mobile app. It's pretty insane. Like the mobile app is huge. It's so useful. If you like the three or four top key data points that you need. Everything's in there. You can even run your ads through there, but you have all the key data points right there. It's beautiful. I love it.

Chase Clymer

Yeah. My most frustrating thing in the world is when SaaS apps are not mobile friendly. It's like,  what's the point? Part of what I built for me. I was the ad buyer. I sat there. I was like, how can I be out with my wife and kids and I get a call from essentially my boss at the time, Max, my co-founder now. What's I blended? I did not want to have to go to my computer to do that. 

Chase Clymer

Absolutely. And everyone listening, you stuck around this long. We actually have  a  code for you to use. If you use Electric Eye,  you pop that in when you're on triplewhale.com. You'll get a bit of a discount. And then obviously, if you're interested in talking to Electric Eye and trying to get some sick returns like Ryan just showed a few minutes ago, you can just go to electriceye.io and click connect to reach out to us.  Any parting words, gentlemen?  

AJ Orbach

What is Electric Eye? What is your specialty? What's the friendship with you from other agencies? I mean, those results looked phenomenal, obviously, but give us a little more about it. 

Chase Clymer

All right. All right. Toot my own horn.  Basically, small teams, founders, they usually find product market fit, they find success through one or two channels, and they're usually doing it on their own. But these small teams are usually not marketers. They're usually not developers. They're usually not strategists. 

They are passionate about solving a problem for their customer.  And so by the time they talk to us, they're doing like half a million, 1.5 million, something like that. They have got their business to  as big as they possibly could on their own. And they need a trusted partner to come in and basically pour gas on their fire. We're really good arsonists over here. We're gonna blow it up for you. 

We do a lot of work on website UX. So we're making super-performant Shopify themes that are lightning fast, which is very important for your ads, by the way. All-night store 2.0, all that jazz. So a lot of design development. Then obviously, Ryan's side of the business is the marketing and advertising. So a lot of owned marketing. So email and SMS. We're Klaviyo Gold Partners. A lot of paid ad stuff. Facebook, Google and Pinterest being the biggest ones that we run. 

AJ Orbach

I love it. That's one of the only agencies I heard that actually does website design. And actually, Ryan, in the forecasting tool that you're there. And anyone listening, you'll realize one of the biggest things you can do for your ads is just focusing on conversion rate and AOV and LPV. 

Chase Clymer

Alright. So that's a whole other conversation. We have a whole framework around this. It's called the Brand Scaling Framework. And basically, there are 3 KPIs that matter. Your conversion rate, your average order value, and your sessions. And everyone wants to go straight to paid ads. They want to increase their sessions. But there are 2 other levers that are quite possibly easier to pull on. 

AJ Orbach

It also unlocks. So for us, I remember when we were running the braids business, when we increased our AOV by $5, it unlocked like 300K more in ad spend per month because also our break even changed drastically. And so we were able to spend so much more aggressively on paid. And so it's like, like, I'll get only $5 more. It's actually, it unlocks a whole level of scale every single time you incrementally fix one of these little things.

Ryan Shaw

When we work with clients who we do, but they're paid media and their own marketing, we're able to  put everything all together and make everything work cohesively. And especially too, if we've also on top of that done the development for their site, where I know on the marketing side that we are working on bundling or we're doing upselling.

And so we can work that into email marketing, which we can work into SMS marketing. And then we can know that, okay, cool. Now, we're doing all of this and  this is happening this month. And we can roll that into paid media in a way that's going to help. It's going to land you on a product but it's also going to point you in the direction of all these other things. So really, when  we can do it all together, it all kind of really works in harmony and does some pretty crazy things.  

Chase Clymer

A perfect example is  Valentine's Day a few days ago. Build out a landing page specific to that campaign, specific to that bundle, drive all the traffic there. And you have the same message across all of your channels, which is a big disconnect that some brands have is that they have desperate teams that are doing different offers and then I'm confused. You know what I mean? You want it all to be the same.  

AJ Orbach

That's beautiful. And you guys do email and SMS. Everything. Essentially, everything to do with the front end of the app, besides getting the product from China into the customer's hand or from wherever.  

Chase Clymer

Yeah. 

AJ Orbach

In the US, right? You guys do everything else, essentially, right?  

Chase Clymer

Basically, if it's going to make the money, we do it. Honestly, we only do 4 things, really. We do paid ads, email, design and development. But that's a big part of Shopify. 

AJ Orbach

Yeah, that's amazing, guys. I'm impressed. 

Rabah Rahil

Incredible. 

Chase Clymer

Awesome. Cool. Well, thank you so much  for jumping on and doing this. And I hope everyone enjoyed this. 

Rabah Rahil

Absolutely. Thanks for having us on, guys. 

Ryan Shaw

Yeah. Thanks, guys.