Bonus Episode: Breaking Free From the “Acquisition Hamster Wheel” with Isaac Hyman

Isaac Hyman is the founder of HiFlyer Digital, an email & SMS marketing agency for the fastest-growing e-commerce brands in the world, as well as a featured e-commerce speaker and new author of The Ultimate Ecommerce Email & SMS Playbook.

Isaac is on a mission to help brands level the playing field with the top e-commerce brands and unlock the true revenue potential of every customer on their email & SMS list.

In This Conversation We Discuss:

• [00:00] Intro
• [01:07] The smart things that HiFlyer Digital does
• [02:16] Percentage of customers that just buy one time
• [03:49] Books and shows that help with post purchase
• [04:32] Customer relationships doesn’t end with the sale
• [05:58] Don’t just focus on the sale
• [06:53] The smart way to run post purchase strategies
• [08:10] 4 stages of the hourglass mindset
• [09:53] How to get Isaac’s free playbook
• [11:07] Relationships around Isaac helped his perspective
• [11:57] Isaac is gonna go back before Q4 and BFCm
• [12:23] Focus on the person behind the email/phone number

Resources:

• Subscribe to Honest Ecommerce on Youtube
• Award-winning email marketing agency, SMS and CRM for Ecommerce brands that knows how to unlock the revenue from every customer on your list hiflyerdigital.com
• Connect with Isaac linkedin.com/in/isaachyman
• Never Lose a Customer Again book joeycoleman.com/books
• Get The Ultimate Ecommerce Email & SMS Playbook, just pay for shipping and handling. Use coupon code HONEST hiflyerdigital.com/playbook

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Transcript

Isaac Hyman  

At the end of the day, everyone wants a better relationship with the person behind the email. It's not just about sending emails and texts.

Chase Clymer  

Welcome to Honest Ecommerce, a podcast dedicated to cutting through the BS and finding actionable advice for online store owners. I'm your host, Chase Clymer. And I believe running a direct-to-consumer brand does not have to be complicated or a guessing game. 

On this podcast, we interview founders and experts who are putting in the work and creating  real results. 

I also share my own insights from running our top Shopify consultancy, Electric Eye. We cut the fluff in favor of facts to help you grow your Ecommerce business.

Let's get on with the show.

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Honest Ecommerce. I'm your host, Chase Clymer. 

And today I'm welcoming to the show one of our great partners over at Electric Eye, Isaac Hyman. He's joining us from HiFlyer Digital. 

They say good things happen to those who wait. We have definitely been waiting a long time to find the time to do this one. 

Isaac, welcome to the show.

Isaac Hyman  

Thanks for having me. I'm a big listener of yours. And just so excited to be part of such a great podcast that has so many great personalities and brands on it.

Chase Clymer  

I'm excited to dive in. 

So today, Isaac, what are you going to talk about? Why should people listen to you? Give me... 

Give us a quick background about who you are, what you do, why you're smart? 

Isaac Hyman  

Sure. Well, hopefully what we do is what's smart. 

I think that our agency specializes in helping brands turn a lot of revenue potential from the customers on their list. And one of the best ways to do that is by turning one-time buyers into lifetime buyers. 

And with everyone right now, thinking about the recession, the challenges in the economy, uncertainty over what the business looks like in 2023 and beyond, retention is really the best way to beat a recession. So that's really what our agency focuses on.

And I've found a lot of brands have been reaching out more and more often saying "I need to break free from that acquisition hamster wheel and focus on growing my customers' value and unlocking their potential." 

So that's what I'm here to offer and give a different perspective than what you may hear out in the market. 

And coming from the top brands, having done it for the top 1% of Ecommerce brands, hopefully, I could give some good perspective to the small guy and help them scale up to win.

Chase Clymer  

Awesome. I'm excited to dive into this stuff. So you share it over some information before and one of these statistics really stands out to me. 

So I guess maybe I'll pose this in a question. What percentage of Ecom customers remain one-time buyers? And why is it that [the case]?

Isaac Hyman  

Yeah, the last stats I've heard from McKinsey and I trust them the most just because they've been in the space for so long. They've been in the research and data area. 

It says about 74% of customers are one-time buyers. And it actually gets even worse than that, because 80% of those one-time buyers are, number one, gained during the holiday season. And they are very low profit, very low margin. 

We're talking when you're when your value stacking paid ads, and free rewards and free shipping, and in some cases, free returns. On top of everything, the brands have very little left for their business.

And those margins are just terrible, you can't even look at it. And when you have a problem of acquiring all these new one-time buyers who don't do anything after a while and they leave 3 out of 4 (times), then you're just in this, again, this acquisition hamster wheel that doesn't help your business grow. 

And that's a major challenge for a lot of stores out there that are trying to compete and win.

Chase Clymer  

Alright, so I spent all this money during Q4 where everybody spends a bunch of money to acquire these new customers. 

What are some of these mistakes you see these brands making when it comes to post purchase on those first time customers?

Isaac Hyman  

So I know Chase, you're a big reader. I know we've definitely traded a bunch of books back and forth, where you've given me some great tips on books and I hopefully will share some of my favorites. 

One of the best books I've ever read is Never Lose a Customer Again. And that book shows a path that a lot of customers... A lot of brands leave customers off the finish line. 

I don't know if you're a fan of this show called Married at First Sight, or maybe Love Is Blind? One of the two. It's very similar.

Chase Clymer  

Oh my gosh, my friends won't stop talking about them. 

Isaac Hyman  

Right. Exactly. So that show is very typical of the post purchase experience for a lot of brands out there. 

You are courting this person, you're courting that customer, you're convincing them with all your deals, and offers, and brand, and positioning, and you get the sale. 

And then after you get that sale, it's like you pass them off to customer service or you drop the ball there. And you just say, "Oh, you bought something. We're done." 

And that is where the relationship starts. That's exactly where. And I attribute it also to the challenge of most brands thinking in a funnel mindset. 

Where you have a funnel, and you drop that customer, and you get the sale, and then it's done when they dropped through the [customers] through the hole, right. 

But the top brands think about the flywheel effect where they get that one time sale and that's exactly where the relationship starts. And now we need to cultivate that relationship and grow it into multiple purchases, multiple referrals, and just keep that going. 

And that's where the brands fall asleep. They don't nurture that one time buyer into a lifetime buyer using the strategy they need to build a relationship. 

They're literally marrying them at first sight and leaving.

Chase Clymer  

Yeah. And that's a... That kind of analogy... "Don't ask for marriage on the first date" is used all over the place, especially in our world, on our end of things. Some inside baseball. 

So from the agency perspective it's like, you're not going for the close on the first conversation because it's a little too aggressive. 

Seeing it when you're on the other side, when you're talking about brands, talking to customers is interesting.

Isaac Hyman  

That's exactly it. A lot of brands just focus on that sale, they focus on the exchange of money, they treat customers like an open wallet. And then they wonder "Why [did] my customers leave? And why they're going to competitors and why they went to Amazon." 

And I think a lot of brands now don't have the luxury of messing with Amazon and messing with the top retailers out there who are going to be poaching those customers. 

And they have a huge amount of venture capital funds, they have a lot of capital to spend on ads... 

It's funny, I was just on another... 

I hosted a podcast with a paid media guy who also runs the ads for the top brands. And he said, Amazon scales up in Q4, they outspend everyone and then they go away. 

And that's a major challenge for brands out there to try to compete with those retailers for the hearts and minds of the customer, you really got to capture them right after the sale, and nurture them into that fan, that advocate from start to finish.

Chase Clymer  

I'm guessing there's a smarter way to run these post purchase strategies. What do you see out there? What does your agency help brands do?

Isaac Hyman  

Oh, so that's a great [question]. It really stressed number one with a mindset shift. As I mentioned before, it's... 

We're all seasoned to have this funnel approach. And you and I are both agency owners. We both have that funnel mindset where you get a lead coming in, and you want to close the deal, and you have this great sales pitch and everything. 

And then hopefully the retention side of it is really solid. I know your business is growing really well. So you definitely have excelled in it. 

But a lot of brands need to break free from that funnel mindset and approach a different mindset, what I call the post purchase hourglass. An hourglass... 

If you know, I used to have one around here. I'm not sure where it went. My kids took it. An hourglass is... 

The sand comes in but then it collects at the bottom and accumulates. And that's where brands need to rethink. "I got that customer and I want to get that piece of sand, get that one customer and become a…”

“Invite them into the community that we have, into all this value, we have it to all this opportunity we have and grow with them". 

So it comes down to that hourglass mindset. That hourglass mindset... 

Within that hourglass philosophy, there's a few stages that brands need to excel in. And the stages that I've identified as the top 4 stages --not top four emails-- but top 4 stages are number 1: Adoption. They need to be able to adopt the product. 

They need to be able to unbox the product, actually extract value from it right away. And the brands need to help the customer do that. 

The second stage is Retention, where a customer could buy this product anywhere, anywhere. 

And what the brands need to do is say, "Here's why you bought from us: Because we have this extra community, we have this content, we have this education, we have this higher quality than any other competitor out there." So that's the retention phase, keep them in your ecosystem.

The third stage is the Expansion phase. That is when you upsell and cross sell after you've said, "Hey, we've helped you adopt the product, you've seen extra value from our brands.” 

“Now we're going to help you become an even better creator, and even better stylist and even better, whatever the product will be". So that's the expansion stage. 

And the final stage is after you've shown that you've helped them adopt the product, you've shown your brand has more value than anyone else, and you've expanded them and helped them achieve their goals with the profit originally bought. 

That's when you turn the Advocacy stage, which is now they turn them into a raving fan. "Go tell your friends, leave a review, become part of our ambassador program." 

Those 4 stages are the best way to excel and turn a one time buyer into a lifetime buyer.

Chase Clymer  

Awesome. Awesome. Just sharing the value right off the rip. I love it. So I know that you got a really sweet little giveaway for our listeners. Let's let them know what you have to offer them. 

Isaac Hyman  

Sure. Well right now what I'm giving away is actually I have that full post-purchase hourglass playbook and strategy all in my book right here. We just came out with this. 

It's about 365 pages of email and SMS strategies from the top brands out there. And it's just a very informative guide for you to roll out for your brand. I've actually kicked the tires on... 

I probably sent about a billion emails so far in the past 12 months and generated about $300+ billion in revenue. And these are the strategies I'm using and what the top brands are using to roll out. So I highly recommend you get that book. 

If you go to our website, hiflyerdigital.com/playbook, you can get this for free. I will just give it to you for free because I want to help brands compete to win in a very crowded marketplace. I think it'd be very helpful.

Chase Clymer  

Awesome. Yeah. And I'll make sure to put that link down in the show notes. And I got the book. I got a copy of the book, it's amazing. He's not really holding anything back there.

 It's not like one of those books where it's like, "Here's half of the strategy and you have to hire us to tell the rest." He's just putting it all out there. 

He believes in value and education, more than using it as a lead magnet, I guess, is a way to put it. 

Isaac Hyman  

Yeah, I hope so... I hope that... At the end of the day, my background is I'm... 

I've always struggled with building relationships. And it took my wife, took my background... I'm adopted so I've always had that break and never had that deep relationship. 

But it took my wife, my family, and everyone to help excel in that, help grow that part of me. 

And I translated that all into the book as well. So there's not just a personal element but also a professional one. Both of them come to play here. And again, if it works... 

And I tested it at the top brands. And if I could do it at the top brands, you can certainly do it at your brand. So it's almost a swipe and deploy. 

You could just roll it out and help shape the mindset for the sake of your brand and the customer. 

At the end of the day, everyone wants a better relationship with the person behind the email. It's not just about sending emails and texts.

Chase Clymer  

Awesome, Isaac, I cannot thank you enough for coming on the show today and sharing your insights. 

We're going to keep this one short and sweet because I know I'm going to have you back before Q4, before Black Friday, you're going to share your secret sauce for 2023 for having the best Black Friday of your brand's life. 

So look forward to that coming out in, I don't know, 6 months I guess from whenever this one comes out. But any parting words for the audience, Isaac?

Isaac Hyman  

Yeah, I think the best part was I could say is again... 

Like I said on a few other speaking engagements, I [always said] that, remember that there's a customer and a person behind the inbox, behind the phone number. And the magic starts... 

The way you build a relationship is with that person. It's not about the email. It's not about the text. It's about building a relationship with that person with that customer, treating them more than just an open wallet who's willing to spend. 

Treat them as a human who has a need to fill and they chose you as a brand. So I really hope you do that because they'll help my shopping experience. 

It'll probably help your shopping experience, Chase, and just help everyone rise together and have a better relationship with shoppers online. 

Chase Clymer  

Awesome. Thank you so much, Isaac. 

Isaac Hyman  

Thanks for being there. 

Chase Clymer  

We can't thank our guests enough for coming on the show and sharing their knowledge and journey with us. We've got a lot to think about and potentially add into our own business. You can find all the links in the show notes. 

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Lastly, if you're a store owner looking for an amazing partner to help get your Shopify store to the next level, reach out to Electric Eye at electriceye.io/connect.